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A Delta Air Lines flight's unruly passenger shows how we apply frontier justice in the skies

Soumis
 
There are few places on Earth that crowdsource law enforcement services from regular folks. Vigilantism is celebrated in films and video games, but it's criminalized in real life. If Batman were an actual person, he would be public enemy No. 1, not a hero with free access to the police commissioner's office. (www.nbcnews.com) Plus d'info...

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jesussmitharoo
billybob snaketail 18
They need a D.B. Cooper door for these "humans"
sparkie624
sparkie624 7
Yes... without the D B Cooper Valve.. LOL!
mbrews
mbrews 6
Sparkie, I looked at the source of your original post. While you are free to post what you like,this one links to an OPINION column from a rather left wing zealot. Let's use opinion colums sparingly, lest we turn from Flightaware to Hot-politics-Aware
strickerje
strickerje 5
I think we're already far down that road. ;)
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 3
minus the parachute...
ronash13
Ron Nash 46
Vigilantism is illegal and a crime, because it is viewed as arming yourself with a lethal weapon or weapons, and carrying out an act of revenge, with a severe outcome for the wrongdoer, way out of proportion to the crime committed.
But a citizens arrest is legal in every country, and passengers stopping an out-of-control airline passenger from going beserk, and restraining them, is not vigilantism.
Maybe the article writer needs to refer to a good dictionary before they get carried away with hype?
jimjallen
Jim Allen 6
Well put.
fireftr
Dale Ballok 5
Yep!
Just another “writer” trying to attract attention with exaggeration!
armonica
armonica 0
They called it vigilante in the Deathwish series. Yet he wasn't out for revenge. He was cleaning the streets up from thugs. Taking the human trash out.
Problem comes with the relatives and friends of the thug. Even activist. They lie, a lot. Oh he was a good boy. Never did anything wrong. Except for his long rap sheet. Even with George Floyd people still believe lies about that. He died from a drug overdose. Not from a knee.
Worse activists are telling them - it's no big deal. Insurance will take care of it. Except it doesn't. Even if it did we all end up paying for it. Many people lost everything they have over a big lie.
cyberjet
cyberjet 0
"He died from a drug overdose. Not from a knee."

So you're accusing the medical examiner of lying on the autopsy report - which clearly stated he died of positional asphyxiation? Wow, I sincerely hope if you're involved in aviation that you have better critical thinking skills than you're displaying here.
strickerje
strickerje 5
Per https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/04/869278494/medical-examiners-autopsy-reveals-george-floyd-had-positive-test-for-coronavirus, the county coroner listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." The asphyxiation diagnosis came from the examiner hired by Floyd's family, who has a vested interest in favoring his client.
cyberjet
cyberjet -1
Semantics.

"complicating law enforcement subdural, restraint, and neck compression".

"Positional asphyxia, also known as postural asphyxia, is a form of asphyxia which occurs when someone's position prevents the person from breathing adequately. Positional asphyxia also may be a result of the policing technique known as "prone restraint", used by police, corrections, military, or health care staff. People may die from positional asphyxia accidentally, when the mouth and nose are blocked, or where the chest may be unable to fully expand."

Cardiac arrest occurs for many reasons - including when there is a lack of oxygen to support heart function. The force applied to his neck led to a lack of oxygen and cardiac arrest - a.k.a. he died of positional asphyxia.
strickerje
strickerje 7
Cardiac arrest can also occur from the drugs he had in his system, so it isn't proven that it was a result of asphyxiation, which is why the coroner's report didn't say so.

[This comment was deleted.]

strickerje
strickerje 5
It sounds like you guys are saying the same thing - the comment you're replying to is arguing that subduing an unruly passenger isn't an example of vigilantism, and isn't illegal. Not sure why you're so hostile here?
greatwildblueyonder
great wildblueyonder 24
Take them down then put them on a no fly list. The End. If you are willing to put an entire aircraft at its passengers and crew at risk, ADIOS. Take a bus.
mbrews
mbrews 9
What folks seem to be missing here : The suspect F.A. SEEMS to have exhibited mental illness, and wouldt better have been placed on a no-fly-list by DELTA itself. IF, and I repeat IF, Delta had previous evidence of serious mental illness.

Remember the consequences of Germanwings tragedy a few years ago.
lynx318
lynx318 3
Unruly passenger was an off duty flight attendant, not sure about 'no fly' but he'll be out of a job after this.
keywestjj
John A. Johnson 2
Definitely "no fly" for them for life. While I am not on any airline's "no fly list" I AM on my own personal one and usually drive everywhere (28-46k miles yearly the last 17 since I retired).... mostly between my properties in 4 states. Before C-19 I did take trains (Amtrak and Via Rail Canada) and long distance Greyhound when available - a very pleasurable way to travel, with a much nicer class of passengers than the airlines have to deal with. Now with Covid largely under control I will again - especially if the US-Canadian border opens sometime.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn -8
Your penalty is rather draconian. Passengers who are unruly should be charged accordingly and sentencing dealt with at the court level. Denying a person the ability to fly for life could be considered cruel and unusual which is in violation of the eighth amendment to the constitution. I'm not a lawyer but I believe in due process.
greatwildblueyonder
great wildblueyonder 0
The 8th amendment was implemented in 1791. There were no airplanes then. Perhaps stage coaches which would of course have frontier justice. America is full of cruel and unusual punishments, just look at the US prisons, more people in jail per capita than any other country on the planet. So if punishment is a deterrent it ain't working. Give unruly passengers on airlines a choice, jail or no-fly. The rich unruly will simply pay a fine and carry on.

[This comment was deleted.]

strickerje
strickerje 15
I miss when this forum was civil.
maicokid
Tim Trosky 2
Disgusting, not the swear words but the attitude
rowettd
Dale Rowett -6
In the U.S., we have rather a lot of laws that are "draconian," by the standards of many who think about these things. Penalties for breaking these laws are intended as deterrents, not punishments, we are told. It seems to me that the risk of being banished from air travel for life might slow down a hot-head who thinks he "needs" to fly to all his destinations, when there are other modes of travel available. In any event, it's a lot less severe than being shot to death for sitting in your living room while being Black.
maicokid
Tim Trosky 2
Does not follow
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 0
Cruel and unusual punishment is enumerated in the 8th amendment to the constitution. This is not an exception.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 6
The 8th Amendment does not apply to businesses, and quite possibly government agencies outside of the courts. No one has a right to fly, and those who choose to fly, do have no right to imperil the other paying passengers of any flight.
punkrawk78
Silent Bob 41
What a stupid "click bait" article. This is what passes for "journalism" these days? I mean frontier justice, gimme a freakin' break already. We're not talking about rounding up a posse to go after cattle rustlers here. Stopping someone from physically attacking passengers or crew or otherwise threatening the safety of an aircraft is not "justice", it's controlling a dangerous situation. And now the people that offer to help are classified as vigilantes? What a tool bag.
mohenley
Mark Henley 15
The aircraft CAPTAIN used the intercom to ask for all able-bodied males to help subdue the disruptive passenger. Being the captain, and therefore the ultimate pilot in command, seems to me that his request while in the air is has the same authority as a ship's captain at sea to direct anyone he or she deems capable of helping to solve a problem.
chugheset
chugheset 20
If you read the authors byline he is a personal injury lawyer. I think that says it all.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
So he’s just drumming up business. Get the mob to assault someone and then get paid to represent that person in a lawsuit against the airline. A pretty good scam for the ambulance chasers.
mbrews
mbrews 6
Yes it's an OPINION column. If we see lots of crappy opinion posts, this forum will further devolve into just another crappy politics site
cyberjet
cyberjet -2
If y'all would bother to put away your spring loaded hatred of the "MSM" for just a moment and actually read the article, you might actually find that everything he said was based on facts and statements of people who went on the record. Sheesh!
strickerje
strickerje 12
The point is that subduing an assailant in a place where there's no expectation of law enforcement presence is akin to a citizen's arrest, which is legal, so the article's framing it as "frontier justice" (i.e., vigilantism) is unnecessary hyperbole.
punkrawk78
Silent Bob 5
Surely you can't be serious? This article is precisely why I hate the MSM. There may have been the odd fact in there, but it was mostly hyperbolic fluff of the worst kind. He says "Practically speaking, in the air, there really is no law". Complete and utter BS. The same laws that apply on the ground apply in the air, and then some. What there isn't on an airplane is Law Enforcement Officers to immediately take control of a situation and take people into custody. Which seems to be what he's advocating in a roundabout way. Which is fine, make that argument logically and without the lame frontier justice hyperbole. There is a big difference between reacting to a dangerous and violet person and attempting to control them, and assuming the role of law enforcement on your own by inserting yourself into situations where it isn't warranted in order to seek "justice". This article makes no attempt to distinguish the two and in fact marries them into one narrative.
ddlinn3
Dennis Linn 10
As a retired Captain, I agree there is no place for a unruly passenger in the air. However in todays environment the airlines and flight crew (and the gov. mandate) have to take some responsibility for what is happening. I was on a flight the other day when a mother with a small child in her arms with all the things that it takes to take care of that child. He had pulled down his mask and the flight attendant didn't ask politely for the mother to pull up his mask she actually starting YELLING at the the mother, instead of helping her. To the point she started yelling for the captain. I was embarrassed for the woman. My question to everyone is, if you walk past a skunk, can you smell it with a mask on?
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 3
Sadly no one caught the FA's tirade.
UAL777
Jim Newton 15
As a retired airline captain and former USAF pilot, I can say with all authority and reality, that the man or woman sitting in the left seat, carries with him or her an immense responsibility, that being insuring the passengers aboard that flight arrive safely. If the Pilot in Command asks for assistance, then that becomes the law ( though it is not required that any passenger respond). The passengers aboard UAL 93 did what they had to do and we will never know how many lives they saved that day at the willing sacrifice of their own. I read nearly every post here and I was saddened to find references to George Floyd. His death was extremely saddening at the very least. However, this issue has nothing to do with Mr. Floyd or any other high profile situation in the news. The term vigilante means nothing more than regular citizens taking the law into their own hands (which CAN result in further problems) I agree; however, that’s not what we are talking about here. Ever since UAL 93, it has been common practice for passengers to come to the aid of Flight Attendants, and Flight Crew alike. Minus the presence of a TSA Air Marshal, the PIC does not have a “law enforcement presence”; therefore, requesting assistance from the passengers is completely within his or her right.

Every airline has a Contract of Carriage; all passengers should read this; it will prevent needless issues post flight.

There is also no room for overly abusive cabin crew as well, though this IS the exception and not the rule.

So….let’s leave the hyperbole, and other unnecessary language out of the conversation and remember the people aboard any flight; all they want is to arrive at their destination as would anyone reading this. Common sense and fact-based reality must rule the day.
Nultech
Nultech 5
In the 2nd to last paragraph of the article, Mr. Cevallos says "We're worried about our police training in use-of-force tactics. What about some guy who has no training or qualifications to use force at all, other than he happens to be right there in Aisle 10?" To my mind, the mere fact that he *is* in row 10 makes him supremely qualified to step in.
CCW1
John Prukop -7
CORRECTION JIM: The UAL Flight 93 'tale' is totally bogus mainstream media FAKE news!

IF you want the real story of 9/11 get in touch with Captain Field McConnell, former NWA 747 command pilot on international routes, a former Happy Hooligan on the F4C and F-16 with the North Dakota ANG at Fargo. His compatriots were on the F-16's scrambled on the morning of 9/11. Field is a Federal Whistleblower EXPOSING 911 FRAUD. And since you'e former USAF, better look up "NORTHCOM" and get educated.

Be sure to ask Field about the BUAP - the QRS-11 Gyro equipped Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot that Hillary Clinton did the Patent work on while she was employed at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas with Vince Foster. Remember him?

Your FAA, NTSB and ALPA have covered up the whole 911 affair, as well as the phony 911 Commission. And just to be sure, there were NO Ahab the Arab hi-jackers with red bandannas. Pure Hollywood BS.

Our Abel Danger team has assembled several videos about 9/11 called "THE 9-11 Resolution Trilogy" and I invite you to watch each and every one of them very carefully: "IS IT LIVE OR IS IT LIVERY?"
https://abeldanger.blogspot.com/p/videos.html?m=1

In addition, I highly recommend you watch this Barbara Honegger, MS video entitled, "9/11 Pentagon Attack - Behind the Smoke Curtain" and you will learn what happened and what DIDN'T HAPPEN! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvJ8nFa5Qk

Happy trails!
UAL777
Jim Newton 5
BTW, you don’t seem to know much about Controlled Explosions of buildings; it can clearly be seen it was air pressure the video shows. I ask you who was Mohammad Atta, do you remember the Phoenix Memo and what it was? Do you remember James Woods witnessed prior to 911. The F-15’s were scrambled out of OTIS and Langley; what about the transmission by Atta “we have planes” (plural) - explain that please; the red bandana’s shown on “United 93” were Hollywood License, but not relevant to what happened. Where is Captain Jason Dahl and his F/O, where is Barbara Olson and my sister-in-law, what about the conversation between the flight attendants aboard AA-11; do you recall those?

Thus, there are literally thousands of evidentiary documents showing this was not faked. The BUAP QRS-11 has never been proven; yes I know all about NORTHCOM and who Vince Foster was.

I decided to add this post because conspiracy theorists make statements that are extremely hurtful to those who lost loved ones, ESPECIALLY the heroes of UAL-93.

On another subject, Please don’t tell me abeldanger thinks we faked the moon landings - I sincerely hope not.

Enough, I am done.

Still, I wish you Smooth Air and Tailwinds.
UAL777
Jim Newton 3
I answered most of your statements; I don’t see it, but I must reiterate this: I lost my sister-in-law on 77, so don’t tell me it was faked. Enough said!
TheDogeof88
Chuck Lavazzi 6
File this under "what could possibly go wrong?" If we have, indeed, turned into a nation of lawless thugs, air marshals on flights need to become a serious probability instead of just an off-chance. I'd certainly see it as a good use of my tax dollars.
2sheds
two sheds 6
As a pilot I am responsible for the safe outcome of the flight.
In this case, what does that mean?
The FAA is typical in its ambiguity and they would likely think a pilot "shooting" an unruly passenger is going too far. Or, would they?
"Yes" and "No", it all depends, as lawyers tend to say.
The problem is lawyers think they have the solution in any "after the fact" opinion.
Then there's the court of public opinion as witnessed by the press.
It's tough and I don't know what I would do with an unruly passenger but being former Army I tend to the disciplinarian mindset.
The FAA having "strong penalties" or any other "after-the-fact" penalty is not much of a deterrence to a mentally incapacitated or stressed person. They have lost the capacity to weigh/balance actions with consequences - by definition.
I think I favor the "strong male passenger" approach as minimizing collateral damage but by definition there could easily be collateral damage in any use of force - lethal or non-lethal.
UAL777
Jim Newton 2
Captain, very well said - Kudos to You!

Smooth Air and Tailwinds to You!!
cos3asg
cos3asg 9
Terrible article. Says very little about the incident itself, then happily moralizes for several boring paragraphs. Clickbait indeed.
Petvetinbarrie
Susan Andrus 4
Is the unruly passenger problem primarily in the USA? Or happening everywhere?
mbrews
mbrews 6
This is not a simple unruly passenger incident. Its a near-raving-lunatic airline employee, who managed to terrorize a commercial aircraft until he was subdued.

Kudos to the crew members who took him down.
UAL777
Jim Newton 4
mbrews, here here - Agree!!!
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 1
Some in Europe but not to the extent of the USA. Speaks volumes on various cultures.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
Are there any links to were we can find statistics on this? I am not disagreeing with but just curious about the real numbers.
waypoint66
David Rice 3
What are the numbers on passenger miles flown per capita, US vs EU residents again? Of course a location with higher numbers has more incidents [per capita]. Please refer back to your basic Statistics education. Perhaps this understanding is what actually "speaks volumes".
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 2
If it smells like a skunk , , , . Please do not attempt to hide behind numbers. There is a major issue in the US that is apparently far greater than elsewhere. The "shining city on a hill" does not exist. Get used to it. That is my last comment on this apparently sensitive and to some unpalatable topic.
waypoint66
David Rice 1
Who’s hiding behind anything? I asked you for statistics and you don’t have them. Not sure why you think I claimed anything about a city on a hill. You sure are touchy about your perceived inferiority. You shouldn’t be so hard on non-Americans, there’s no reason for you to feel inferior.
cyberjet
cyberjet 0
Oh please. At a time when traffic numbers are still significantly below normal, the US has had more reported unruly passenger incidents in the first 5 months of 2021 than they had in all of 2019 - the last year of normal traffic volumes. It clearly ties to the prevalence of anti-mask / COVID hoax hoard of anarchists whose behavior was incited and encouraged by the former president.
waypoint66
David Rice 1
So in response to my request for comparative analysis between US vs EU residents you state a comparison between US residents in one year vs another year. Yes, this discussion does indeed speak volumes about your understanding of Statistics. Thanks for supporting my original point!
cordery
Alan Cordery 0
Baloney, I haven’t heard of one incident in Europe. Be accountable for your loonies.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 5
There sure as hell have been. I know KLM is having issues with it too.
musocat
James Patterson 5
Well, I've heard that some English soccer fans have been so unruly on European flights that they make us Yanks look pretty tame!

Brace up, it's hell out there, folks.
Stevehoker
Steve Hoker 4
I believe the last issue on Delta was an Employee Flight Attendent, lets get the Facts, just the Facts, maybe an intervention from Delta, for one of their own is in order.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 4
While the opinion writer may have some good points, he blows it with the hyperbole of passengers being vigilantes.
jackpoole
Jack Poole 12
The way certain individuals and all of the media justify criminal behavior has become the norm. Civility, law and order and respect for others is a thing of the past.
UAL777
Jim Newton 2
Jack, you are SO correct! It’s a sad commentary on on our country today. Where are the days of The Great Generation and the USA values they kept, believed in, and lived. Thank you for the comment!
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 6
The problem here is that people often do not know what the dispute started over. I disagree with people being disrespectful to flight crew or other passengers but we have also seen airlines physically de board passengers when the airline overbooked.when we start using mob justice we must be careful who we sick the mob on.
That being said if someone is acting disrespectful to crew or other passengers I will not hesitate to politely ask them to stop acting up. My physical size is usually enough to defuse the situation.
RussellNelson
Russ Nelson 6
Crew members get the benefit of the doubt.
palazzini1
Mike Palazzini 6
Were is Marshall Dillon when you need him? Get the unruly passenger out of Dodge.
JBI2k4
J B 3
I recall several years in the aftermath of 9/11 when I (in good enough shape) and a lot of other strong male flyers looked over other passengers and mentally readied themselves to help crew in the event. Somebody has to have legitimate quasi-police authority to act and "deputize" willing assistance - obviously the captain and in this episode he did. It might be some of that should be more clearly formalized in policy and crew training, but I wouldn't define it as rogue vigilantism.
patpylot
patrick baker 3
this offending passenger was not evaluated in advance as to political, religious or any other set of beliefs, but evaluated on the spot as a threat to the rest of the folks on the flight by actions alone. As such, those actions taken for the greater survival stand any test in any court, legal or court of public opinion.
RDLoven
Richard Loven 4
They should have a bouncer on airplanes. When a customer gets too rowdy just throw him out the door.
mohenley
Mark Henley 1
Maybe they could start installing a larger, human-size version of the sonobuoy ejection tubes that are on the Navy's patrol aircraft. Then the cabin crew could just pop them out the bottom of the aircraft.
corsair2
David Seider 2
I like the way you think! No muss, no fuss...
"If it works, it's not a dumb idea."

Fly Navy!
Pete48y
Pete48y 3
It’s the mask Stupid! Lack of O2 and too much rebreathing CO2, not to mention all the bacteria build up in that nasty face diaper!
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 1
All these mask muzzle nazis want to maintain full control over what they term sub humans as they fly on the nations scare lines.
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 3
Typical news tripe from a news challenged organization.
DaHarwell
Donald Harwell 1
Free handouts and cheaper air fares allows these folks to travel on an airliner. These people used to ride the bus, maybe that is where they need to be.
tahoe967
Buster Chappell 1
Stupid article by woke 'journalist'!
twschmidt4
twschmidt4 1
I’ve been very vigilant when flying. I watch other pax when moving about the cabin. A few years ago I started packing wire wraps in my backpack so in case of an incident I have restraints handy.
williamableman
William Ableman 1
If people did this during 9-11, 9-11 would not have happened. And because of 9-11, people are not going to take this crap anymore.
waypoint66
David Rice 2
People did in fact intervene with the hijackers on 9/11. Unfortunately, it was too late to save the plane. Please don’t forget the heroes of Flight 93.
UAL777
Jim Newton 1
Thank You David!
fireftr
Dale Ballok 1
“Artistic license”
BDaleR
Byron Russell 1
Someone else has said the job of the police is to not only protect the public from criminals but to protect criminals from the public. So, when there are no police...
kelliott3ster
kelliott3ster -1
Unruly and disruptive behavior has been encouraged by a certain politician and shows up in all walks of life in the USA. As this voice becomes a non-entity, a calmer, more civilized society will follow.
TechnoDan
TechnoDan 6
As opposed to politicians who support "mostly peaceful" protests?
waypoint66
David Rice -2
Yes, you are correct. “One side”, made up of Dems and also Conservatives supports mostly peaceful protests. Then there is “the other side”, made up of political outcasts known currently as “Republicans”, who support Trump’s effort to overturn the results of a fair and balanced election, as declared by their own private media outlet, FoxNews.
paulfharris
Paul F Harris -1
ban the sale of booze on planes & at airports
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 7
So you want to take something away from the vast majority of responsible passengers because a very tiny minority have a problem? That is punishing those who have never created the problem.
BTW I have never drank in a plane even though I fly several times a month. Even on vacation flights I don’t indulge. Just never have but I do not think others cannot enjoy a few drinks.
mohenley
Mark Henley 6
Oh yeah, what a good idea.... keep the whole class after school due to one misbehaving kid.
jimjallen
Jim Allen 2
See, I disagree. Society in general is turning more “asshole” every day. Would it help? In some cases, but then you take away the ability from the 99% of flyers that may just want to kill some time in the bar before a flight. I’ll get behind stopping the sale of booze on aircraft though… but only because the gate agent can assess your state of intoxication “before” you board and it can’t get worse.
fireftr
Dale Ballok 16
Yes, alcohol just adds fuel to the fire, but this airborne behavior is just an extension of today’s society’s lack of respect for authority.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 1
Personally I think that a clear and powerful "cause and effect" environment will take care of ~90% of the problem. Do something stupid? No second chance and flag the individual as an offender no longer allowed to board a plane. Similar to what was in place post 9-11. On the bad-person list, you have major issues. Jail time and fines must be included in the effect. Set a few examples and just watch the numbers plummet. The nair do wells are like kids without supervision. There is a need for adults in the room.
baja463
Bill A -3
d0ugparker
Doug Parker 1
When I buy a ticket from Delta, I enter into a Contract of Carriage with them. I am not a lawyer, but I think that might be *kind of* important. I do not claim to understand it all, either. The writer talks about social contract, but nothing about Contract of Carriage.

In informal, forum discussion, the contract usually gets dismissed and overlooked, but in a court of law, it would be central to its proceedings. Delta's Contract of Carriage is 11,000+ words long, but none of the forum comments here address which part of their Contract of Carriage was breached. Keep in mind, too, that every airline's Contract of Carriage is different.

NB: Things are considerably more complicated than most of the forum's comments imply.

Contract of Carriage is agreed upon with every ticket purchase, then it summarily gets dismissed. Then conversation and intelligent discussion about issues governed by that contract continues without its being considered. That's not productive, not logical, not fruitful, and not good. It's not right to ignore 11K words of an agreement, then to try to have intelligent discussions about what's right or wrong, legal or illegal, permitted or not about everyone's interactions that are legally bound by that agreement.

This is more complex than it's being treated.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn -4
Mask mandates on airline flights should stop immediately. These have absolutely nothing to do with the security of an airplane. The rationale for this mandate has been proven time and again as unnecessary and in fact damaging to the health of the wearer. If a passenger wishes to wear a mask that is fine but for the majority of passengers the mask is an unnecessary burden as well as an unlawful edict impinging on the freedom of the citizen. I refuse to fly because of it. As far as I am concerned I never want to fly again. Flying is stressful enough as it is and the addition of the mask is nothing more than excessive abuse of the passenger.
ewrcap
David Beattie 0
OMG! SUCH A BURDEN! My back surgeon and his crew just spent 3 hours working on my back and, all of them had to wear masks! They do it all day 5 days a week. Thank God they are much tougher than you.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn -7
The introduction of the mask mandate on flights may be the straw that broke the camel's back. For some time passengers have taken abuse from the government mandates whenever they flew. Preflight screening has gradually increased to the point where passengers must nearly undress in order to fly to their destination. Shoes must be taken off and examined by TSA personnel who also must wand or utilize full medal detectors and private more inclusive screening and examination. Passengers have seen their liberties increasingly be violated in order that they may fly with an airline. In the absence of profiling, which by the way has been an effective method of screening potential problematic passengers, the only thing left for the airlines to do is increased physical screening. Now add to this the insane mandate that all passengers must wear a mask in the airport, during flight and on exiting the airport, and you have a potential flash point for many passengers who have basically been 'tipped' over the edge. How much further can these arbitrary mandates go? Leave it to the democrat controlled government to imagine more and further restrictions on our freedom. I read an article the other day where Pete Buttigieg said he was not ready to do away with the mask mandate due to the mix of travelers using the airlines. C'mon Pete, get over your power trip man!! (A little Joe Biden phraseology!!)
cyberjet
cyberjet 0
Good god, how have we ever survived as a society with more than a century of living with rules and regulations that are meant to protect life, health and property? Maybe it's time to think about more than just yourselves?
DTBMF
Daniel Gless -1
It seems that those mandates were put in place by the last presidents regime....and as for liberties? I want to be able to be covid free to enjoy my LIBERTIES. Should you wish to wander around without a mask it looks like you can't do it on public transportation at this time. You can always drive in total freedom though.
Your freedom ends when it enroaches on everyone else's freedom to be disease free.
waypoint66
David Rice -2
Being asked to wear a mask “tipped” you? “Hey you kids, get off my lawn” comes to mind. I’m sure you’re a big hit at parties. Oh, right, worthless old jerks (a.k.a. partisans) don’t get invited to parties, do you?
waypoint66
David Rice -8
On a tangentially related topic...
What happened on this flight is clear evidence that the "Fluffy Doe" (FFDO) program is completely unnecessary. Passengers and locked cabin doors are all that is needed to protect from cockpit intrusions. Yes, I understand there was no cockpit intrusion in this case; the evidence I'm referring to is that passengers are the safety mechanism, not some "wannabe cop" pilot who thinks they need guns in the world's smallest office behind a locked door.
cyberjet
cyberjet 8
Tell that to my flight attendant colleague who was off for a year recovering from injuries sustained while trying to diffuse a situation with an unruly passenger. She suffers permanent pain and mobility issues to this day over a decade later. Some proper law enforcement on site would have been a big help that day.
waypoint66
David Rice -2
And you think the FFDO program offers that “proper law enforcement”? Nope, an FFDO cannot use that authority outside the cockpit. Thank goodness then passengers are there to help your friend, because the FFDO will be cowering in their little locked office.
punkrawk78
Silent Bob 5
Seriously, what is with your hard-on for the FFDO program? This is at least the second time you've been on here throwing "fluffy doe" insults around. I'm sure we would all hope that a 9/11 style cockpit takeover would be stopped by anyone and everyone in back, but having trained armed pilots up front as a last line of defense doesn't seem like an unreasonable option. I'm genuinely curious as to why you're so butt hurt about armed pilots.
UAL777
Jim Newton 2
I wonder if he has ever flown aboard an El Al flight? More armed than you might believe.

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