Japan Airlines Accident Highlights Importance Of Flight Attendants And Passenger Discipline

Not only should credits go to all crew members, but also the 379 people on board.

Throughout my many years of business and pleasure flying throughout the world, I have observed things that have stuck with me. In Japan, South Korea and China, all people listen and obey people in authority. It is ingrained. And when told to follow the emergency briefings, they do. As a result, they do not reach into the overhead bins. In America, even before the plane fully stops at the gate, they are up and reaching for their bags. And do they ever get into arguments with flight attendants.

From an early age, we either accept authority(within reason), or choose to ignore it. The choice can be catastrophic.

Credit goes to crew members as well as passengers themselves.
Discipline is really very important especially during emergency and critical situation. It is matured culture in Japan developed since years and far ahead of rest of the world.

Getting everyone off a burning 787 safely would be impossible in the US. If it isn't the entitled people grabbing luggage from the overhead bins, it would be taking selfies, or live streaming the disaster.

After having worked as a flight attendant for a major US airline back in the 80s, I have become addicted to watching "Air Disasters". This show recreates air accidents from all over the world, then outlines the investigation into the causes afterwards. In the UK, back in the 80's, there was an accident where there was a fire on a plane and the pilots, not knowing where the fire was or that it was spreading, turned the plane as they landed it, causing the emergency exits on one side of the plane to be unusable due to the fire. Another exit would not open (door was jammed) so there ended up only being one exit the entire plane could evacuate from. People were pushing forward, climbing over seats, become disoriented due to the smoke and not listening to the emergency instructions of the flight attendants. This resulted in a number of deaths that were ultimately determined to have been preventable. So remember, when a flight attendant asks you, if you are sitting in the exit row, if you can open the door (which is very very heavy), be honest if you can or cannot. If you are told to stow away your belongings, listen and do it without arguing. Always take a few seconds to see where the exits are when you board a plane. Look at the floor and see where the light stripss are so if the cabin is filled with smoke, you know where the lights are and understand how they can lead you to an exit. It takes only a few seconds but it can save your life!

Let' all remember to pay close attention to the attendants when they speak. Don't act like you know it all as so many passengers do. Maybe we need to watch a video of what to do before boarding the plane.

That was a domestic Flight probably with mostly Japanese citizens on board.
If it was a US domestic flight with typically overweight people onboard the evacuation time would have been longer?
I have participated in aircraft evacuation certification drills and it only takes one —- person to slow down the process.
My apologies to all those + sized passengers in advance.

Kudos to this crew for an amazing job. I'd be willing to bet that not a single person attempted to evacuate the jet with their carry-ons. A testament to reason and discipline, qualities that are nonexistent in the west.

As per usual, Juan Browne does an excellent job of sharing and breaking down everything we know so far about this horrible accident that could have been MUCH MUCH worse:

Initial report (2-Jan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_sQ1L_xPmo

Followup report (4-Jan): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1VuXT7Twyc

I flew from Johannesburg to Cairo with Egyptair, I was horrified to see passengers filling the aisle's with baggage and boxes on our decent into Cairo. Had there been an emergency I doubt if any of us would have been able to reach the emergency exits. The cabin crew did nothing to stop this and I can only assume it was normal on Egyptair.

Here's an idea that I am sure will not take off....have the OH bins locked just before the cabin doors are closed, unlocked at 10K FT or cruising altitude. Then repeat on landing, locked down until at the gate.

In the United States (if not other so-called "western countries"), this (the orderly, safe, efficient evacuation of a burning airplane) would never have happened: Shirley and Mary Jo and Rocky and Harry would say/would have said:

"Nah! Those rules for leaving stuff behind are for other people, not for me. A few more seconds can't possibly make a difference, and I'm just not going anywhere without my ATM card, my Master Cards (several), my driver's license, and my laptop/iPad."

Burn, arrogant/selfish idiots.

The conduct of the passengers was highly commendable. If that had happened here in the US, it would have been a shitshow.

On the domestic (US) flights I’ve been on mainly between PBI and EWR the safety announcements can barely be heard over people talking loudly to each other. Also the aggressive nature of some people wanting to get off the plane as fast as possible is annoying. And I’m talking about the first six rows of the plane. Not much respect for others.

certainly the fact that the red lights at the end of the taxiway were inop was factor

Imagine recognizing that you live in a society with other people.

I cannot imagine sitting there, doing nothing for almost 20 minutes while someone else decides if I live or die.

It's been reported that 18 minutes elapsed between the time of the collision until the last person was out of the A350. A lot of credit has been given to the resistance of the A350 to the fire. It has also been reported that the cockpit crew was unaware of the fire until so advised by the cabin crew. Eighteen minutes is a long time in an emergency. Of course, determining which exits are safe to open is critical, but how much time was lost before the evacuation order was given? Saudia flight 163 comes to mind.

In 2005, an Air France A340 landing in a storm at Toronto International airport crashed into a ravine at the end of the runway where it caught fire. Due to the amazing professionalism of the cabin crew and the responsible behaviour of the 297 passengers, there were no deaths and only 12 serious injuries. Most of the passengers and crew were Canadian and French nationals, so it seems that such responses in disastrous situations can be found in many countries and cultures. The exit time for all aboard was under 90 seconds despite having four exits unavailable and accomplished in storm conditions, a raging fire and in a deep gully. Fire crews were recorded as being at the site in 52 seconds.

At times small kids on a school bus are more disciplined and less disruptive than some passengers on an Aircraft.

The crash situations or emergency landing will vary and none are alike .
The Main mission for crew members is to ensure safe challenging conditions and come to a complete stop then a code or a signal to evacuate would be initiated.

However “ exits are not necessary usable or cleared “

Crew members are well trained and professional and prepared to evacuate passengers to safety when necessary.

Fear, Panic and confusion are expected.
When passengers are good listeners and respectful, the rest will follow.
This would make things easier and increase communication, coordination for an enjoyable fight experience.

Flight Attendants have families and a life too .
If one thinks that crew members don’t care or want to perish in an aircraft, one is much mistaken.

Please stop vilifying crew members and enjoy your flight.

In addition to the comments, below note this is a real world example of evacuation. Eighteen minutes, counting time to stop, confusion of the flight attendants, limited exits available. The idea of the 90 second standard is absurd.

We Americans, especially the younger generation, have no discipline or respect for authority. This attitude is passed on from generation to generation and it’s only getting worse. It affects everyone and everything in our country. God help us……..our government won’t.

Years ago when I was flying European routes/cities, CDG(Paris) used the following phrase to clear a/c for takeoff: “cleared for takeoff—after landing Airbus”.
Fun times indeed—-

Why did it take 18 minutes to get out??

The smoke rapidly filling the cabin worries me. Smoke kills before fire. Should external air intake not be shut off routinely on take-off and landing ? Lots of well deserved praise for the crew, passengers and strength of the aircraft hull, but do these new composite construction materials produce toxic smoke more quickly even if they resist fire as well as aluminium?

Great job but a sad end with the first hull loss of an A350. My question is how the entire aircraft was allowed to be engulfed in flames and totally destroyed when the initial videos and images show only a right engine fire, plus only very modest efforts by fire fighters, including footage on this link of a single fireman using a water hose. Surely the hull could have been saved if a concerted effort had been put into the situation but it looks like the fire fight was abandoned early in the piece. The insurance companies involved will be looking for answers even if nobody else is.

Self discipline in this country? Perhaps lock the overheads during final descent until the aircraft is stopped at the gate.

Watching the videos from inside is absolutely terrifying. One person began recording about 30 seconds before full stop of the aircraft and continued filming right until after they exited the chute at the bottom of the front left side. It was 6:40. All through it the staff are repeating instructions (in Japanese, I don't speak it) again and again, clearly standing at their positions, cabin lights off, flashlights in hand, eventually megaphones. No panic but kids are crying, people are agitated and occasionally shouting but staying put until, as with the videographer, high tail it to the chute. Incredible action by the crew. What I can't understand is that #2 is still running with significant power with people coming down a shallow, slow chute in front.

👌👌👍👍👍👍👍🦾🦾💪💪💪

Another point of importance: only one aircraft at a time on the runway.

How about the crew on the flight deck listening to and confirming ATC instructions?