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The NTSB Wants To Recover The Boeing 737 That Crashed Off Honolulu

Soumis
 
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will attempt to retrieve the wreckage of a Boeing 737 that ditched into Mamala Bay off Hawaii in July. On Thursday, the NTSB confirmed it was sending investigators to Hawaii to coordinate the October recovery. (simpleflying.com) Plus d'info...

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ronash13
Ron Nash 7
Kudos to the flying skills of the pilot and co-pilot, who could ditch a B737 into the sea off Hawaii with malfunctioning engines, and survive the ditching - in pitch black conditions, at 0230 HRS!
3148635698
Marc Clemente 4
Perhaps with Starlink satellite internet, there will be enough bandwidth that in the future some of the more critical parameters/events can be uploaded in real-time. For example, anytime there is a warning light, or the stick shaker is activated, or the airplane exceeds some bank angle, etc.
sgbelverta
sharon bias 1
I still can't believe how clear the pictures are of the plane sitting on the ocean bottom. That is so much more than the NTSB has to work with in many crashes.
picturetaker
Christian Parada 1
THEY HAVEN"T RECOVERED THE FLIGHT DATA RECORDER OR THE COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER YET?!
bigjulie
Julius Thompson 13
Don't shout! In other words take your caps lock off!
lewflightinfolew
Larry Weaver 0
WHOAAA !! Grammar police in the area.
padrooga23
padrooga23 -1
Given all of the inflight internet access, plus all of the comms that go on between equipment and ground during the flight anyway, why do we still have to recover a recording device to get all of the flight data and voice recordings? I can listen to recordings of the control tower on Live ATC either simultaneously, or immediately upon archiving every 30 minutes. Why are we still relying on physical recording devices as a primary source of information in this regard? (good to still do it for back up, but why primary?)
All the passengers in the back can upload data inflight. Why not the flight itself?
sparkie624
sparkie624 5
That was a Cargo plane and they there is no substitute for Hands on inspection... The recorders can tell us what, but not why!
padrooga23
padrooga23 2
Inspection of the air frame, of course, but you missed my point. Why aren't flight data and cockpit flight recordings uploaded in live time? It should not require recovery of the physical box to have access to the data.
GraemeSmith
Graeme Smith 5
Bandwidth. The satellites could not handle the sheer volume multiple event data per second for many
aircraft - never mind thousands. There is SOME data available from more modern aircraft (not that old cargo 737) where the cost of uploading (mainly occasional engine telemetry on an "as needs" basis) is offset by alerting maintenance personnel at the next airport to keep to scheule.

BTW - LiveATC is a crowdsourced data gathering exercise. Thousands of volunteers have radio receivers all over the world recording "what they can hear" on all the frequencies at and around airports, compresses them and then uploads them to LiveATC using donated bandwidth from their (usually) home internet connection. Though it seems like they "get it all" - they often don't due to line of sight issues never mind if an airport is even covered by a volunteer.

FlightAware works in exactly the same way. Volunteers, crowdsourced data capturing aircraft ADSB feeds. It does not show all aircraft. It misses non ADSB and non transponder aircraft.

Attempts were made to synch LiveATC with FlightAware in the past - but the latency of the LiveATC feeds can be upwards of 15 seconds and it didn't really work.
djames225
djames225 4
Cannot upload in live time. Any lag in transmission or comms drop out and all data is lost. With a hardware device on board, and built to the specs they are, that is the way to do it. Think back how ticked you get when the internet goes out even for a few minutes. Now picture all the data lost if comms get interrupted. And that is just the tip of that iceberg
ChrisCollingwood
Chris Collingwood 1
And the comms loss would only become apparent when the data was needed, and by then it is too late to back-track and fix anything. I admit it would be nice to have whatever data could be archived in real-time, but too many ways for it to be lost forever.
Kairho
Kairho Carroll 0
We already have proven technology to handle comm lag and dropout (actually the same thing) and probably enough bandwidth to handle it via satellite. So it comes down to cost, physical space, and the human calculation as to how much data delay/loss (usually in time) is acceptable and the related cost. An example is the audio buffering in your car's Sirius XM radio -- how it acts when you drive under a bridge and stop as compared to driving straight through.
mohenley
Mark Henley 1
No we do not have enough bandwidth. Exercise for the reader: go lookup all the data rates for what all parameters the FDR saves, add in at least a 40KBPS bandwidth for each cockpit microphone, and at least that much for each comm and nav transmitter and receiver, then multiply that by the largest number of aircraft ever in that area at one time (who all would be needing to send data at the same time) then look up the geo-sync satellites that would have good enough line of sight for the Hawaii area and get the specs for the bandwidth of every transponder on those satellites, and assuming that all of those transponders were devoted to just aircraft data streams, look at that answer compared with the one you got from adding up all the aircraft data being transmitted. No. we. d0. not. have. enough. bandwidth.
bobfiegel
bobfiegel 1
I keep thinking of long ago working on C-141s. VERY basic data was scribed onto a wide metal scroll that would cut you like a razor blade if you came in contact with the edge (whe changed the cassettes when due). Oh, how far we have come, but someday even further.
emkostiuk
emkostiuk 0
Just thinking a little outside the box. Besides learning what went wrong, besides the FDR CVR, think of the learning tools for future NTSB students by having a "live" A/C that was recoverable.
jkeifer3
Joe Keifer 0
Human factors baby!
bentwing60
bentwing60 -3
djames225
djames225 4
Perhaps the NTSB needs parts of it to ensure a proper investigation.
“Having access to the recorders, the engines, and other components will be critical to understanding not only how this accident occurred, but how future accidents might be prevented.”
“The wreckage of TransAir flight 810 contains important investigative information, including that captured by the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder,” NTSB Chairperson Jennifer Homendy said on Thursday.
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
Recorders and most certainly to inspect the engines most likely!

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