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Passenger discovers missing screws on wing of Frontier airplane

Soumis
 
Frontier Airlines is investigating why a plane flew with about 20 screws missing from an area near the front of the wing, Denver7 Investigates confirmed with officials Friday. A passenger noticed the missing screws on a Frontier Airlines Airbus 319 from Trenton, N.J., to Punta Gorda, Fla., on January 5 and notified the captain. (www.thedenverchannel.com) Plus d'info...

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joelwiley
joel wiley 26
Perhaps a better title would be '...discovers screws missing...'. He didn't find the screws themselves, only the holes.
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 15
That was my first thought after reading the article. The art of writing and editing is dying out.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
LOL... You have a point... Those screws would have had a real magnetic attraction to have stayed there that long :) - At lest it was not a repeat of Continental Express 2574 in 1991 where they left the screws out of the Left Horizontal tab, the Aircraft crash killing all on board. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Express_Flight_2574
mariofer
mariofer 1
You wonder sometimes who writes these things.
busheyrk
Richard Bushey 1
Astute comment. But your's usually are..
dabeed
Dave Fisher 1
exactly! and a passenger did NOT notice the missing screws... a passenger noticed the crews missing...
dabeed
Dave Fisher 2
oops... not 'crews'... :(
joelwiley
joel wiley 4
The passenger noticing what the crews missing
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
Oh, I hope not.
sanukjim
Frontier's maintenance inspectors are what you get now when hiring as cheap as you can maintenance personnel.
SWEATINTHSWAMP
SWEATINTHSWAMP 4
Whatever happened to the first officer walk-around pre flight that would have discovered the missing screws before take off?
dee9bee
dee9bee 5
From the image provided, I'm not sure if the missing screws were on the upper or lower side of the slat. If a passenger, presumably sitting near the leading edge noticed them, it was probably on the upper side and wouldn't be seen by the F/O on walkaround.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Upper side. That picture was taken from the top as you can see the curvature and the opening for the actuator rod ends The bottom of the wing is more flat.
Cadefoster
Cade foster 3
Journalists especially TV based ones just want to give you "their" opinions. They have no interest in just reporting the actual facts.
sparkie624
sparkie624 9
When was that new... If it is not bad news and the news reports it, they they make it look bad. A recent joke going around on Trump is a good example...

Did you hear about Trump inviting the Pope for lunch on
his mega yacht?
Well, the Pope accepted and during lunch, a puff of wind blew the Pontiff's hat off, right into the water.
It floated off about 20 meters, then the wind died down and it just
floated still.
The crew and the security team were scrambling to launch a boat to go get it, when Trump waved them off, saying: "Never mind, boys, al git it"
The Donald climbed over the side of the yacht, walked on the water across to the hat and picked it up, then walked back on the water, climbed onto the yacht, and handed the Pope his hat.
The crew was speechless. The security team and the Pope's entourage were speechless.
No one knew what to say, not even the Pope.
But that afternoon, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, 9 NETWORK, 7, 10 and CNN all knew how to cover the story.
Their banner headlines read,
"TRUMP CAN'T SWIM!"

And that is how the media works!
LuisEduardoForeroRoa
No están asiendo la revicion correctamente
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Gracias a Google Translate:
No estoy seguro de a quién te refieres con ellos y qué crítica
kerimparrot
Mike Williams 1
The bean counters will probably make sure they will not be installed on the next one being built. Someone some where has figured out how much each screw costs and the cost that costs them to install.
FlyYX
FlyYX 1
This would have never happened with the maintenance crew in MKE. This is what happens when a Union takes a Airline to court because they don't want to work in a certain state that the airline now wants to put heavy maintenance and their planes get close to having C checks but can't do it because of the Union and the samecourt. And the C checks have to be done by a third party and said company finds out it's cheaper to have it all third party out and closes the base.
jonvdg
Jon VdG 1
I think I read somewhere that the 319's are about to be retired from Frontier's fleet. Could be a good thing :-) As a Denverite who flies Frontier often, I'm starting to get nervous. They don't seem to have contingency plans for a lot of basic logistics (pilot calls in sick, aircraft stuck on taxiway for four hours, etc.), and I wonder if this story is more of the same - just a general lack of attention to detail. That's a naive passenger's perspective, feel free to call me on that if I'm blowing it out of proportion.
dtw757
mike SUT 1
I'm looking at the photo and it looks more like a training edge flap, given the jackscrew and the gap in the aluminum on the top surface of the wing,possibly a spoiler.
Regarding the comment about the First Office walk around...this would not have been visible to him as it is on the top portion of the surface AND the flaps would have been retracted at that point so essentially "hidden" in the wing structure.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
No, that is definitely the leading edge. Not the slot where they retract is a Hydraulic Actuator that extends and retracts the Slats. Also, make not of the curvature of the leading edge. The trailing edge is much shoarper.
dtw757
mike SUT 0
Sparkie....I made my observation based on the (approx) 2 inch FLAT edge of the device, IE the bottom piece AND 32 years of walkarounds for NWA and now DAL. When have you seen a Leading Edge be anything other than "Rounded" under on a commercial aircraft. AND..if you had those half inch gaps, which I take to be the gaps between the spoilers, can you imagine the aerodynamic forces trying to peel the metal back at landing or takeoff speeds not to mention the disruption of airflow caused by that gap and air being rammed into it. Next walk around you do or even go google "trailing edge of A-320 flap" (since Frontier only flies scarebus) under images and you'll see why. 3200 hours of A320 and 4000+ of A330 logged.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
I hear what you are saying.. I know all about those forces... I have put a few of them back together.
dragonflyt10
William Barrow 1
Reminds me of an old quote (paraphrased), "We've come a long way in airline safety in America. What we need now is a better class of passenger."

Just need to make sure we post these passengers at the over-wing exits!
mcsf16
Monroe Smith 1
A few years ago when landing I noticed a tool with an orange handle moving around when the pilot put the speed brake up on the left wing as we were landing. I waited to be the last person off & I introduced myself to the pilot & told him I worked for the AF safety Office & told him what I saw. The pilot told the co-pilot to retrieve the tool when he raised the speed brake. I didn't stick around to see what tool they found. Working for the AF we are big on FOD "foreign object damage".
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
My favorite pair of Safety Wire Pliars came off an airplane when I found it coming in... Have quite a few tools collected over the years. Believe me, when you find them in a plane the mechanic does not want them back.... that is certain time off!!!
mcsf16
Monroe Smith 2
We lost a pair of vise grips & hunted all over the plane & didn't find them. 3 months later when plane came through phase & we were pulling off the panels there was the vise grips clamped on to the bulkhead. Sure they are in someones tool box at home
tbpera
Tom Pera 2
1968...walk around with grumpy old experienced FE... EC121R, KORAT THAILAND... "Lt...what's that black and yellow item there are the engine?"... "well Sgt..it's the intake attachment to the turbo...." "No Lt, it's the mechanics flashlite.. get his ass over here and have him remove it!" Old Gilpin had flown on those birds for 15 years...couldn't get anything past him
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
This group?
https://www.westin553.net/batcat00.htm
watkinssusan
from the photo with the story, it is obvious that screws are missing..i wonder how it was that the passenger noticed as usually a traveler is too busy getting on and off an aircraft via a jetbridge..the story did not say if the passenger noticed this inflight..in any case, i am dating myself, but remember the american airlines dc 10 that had missing bolts and an engine fell off as it was takig off from Chicago? this was a long time ago, back in 1979 I believe,but its the same issue..maintenance not being done properly..
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
I think the left engine fell off do to a fork lift operator lifted the engine during repair and it was not noticed that the engine bolt thingy was dented and cracked. Anyway something like that. I saw it on TV so it has to be true...oh it was on "Why Planes Crash"!
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
The Flight Crew not noticing it reminds me of another event that the Flight Crew and Passengers missed on a Dash 8. The night before a 25 plus pound Turkey went between the Prop and the Fuselage and impacted the leading edge to the point that it damaged the Wing Spare (Not beyond repair). The in bound crew on post flight walk around missed it (it was late night), The inbound crew the next morning missed it on the Leading Edge (about 7 AM). Be sure to make note that there were feathers protruding straight up out of the Wind Leading Edge of at least 12" (I have pictures somewhere). The passengers loading the plane were apparently like lemmings and just go on board the aircraft and said nothing and didn't see anything, even though ramp loading with no jet way you would someone would have said something... The person who finally noticed it was the ramper that was in the process of turning him out of the gate at the time and to quote him as I was the maintenance controller handling the call: "Something Just Did Not Look Right"...

For me, when I am boarding a plane, I look it over as best I can from the gate area, If I approach from the ramp with no jet way, you can bet that I am doing my own preflight inspection and I have seen and reported things in the past.
bstilp
Ben Stilp 1
Ha! I want to see pix of turkey feathers
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
I'll look for them.. I think I still have them somewhere.... I have always wondered how good of a walk round was done to miss a Mowhawk style 12 inch high of feather sticking up out of the wing not to mention an 8" whole in the leading edge of the wing!
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
Just a side note.... It happened the day before Thanks Giving!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
That turkey was on the lam! (no pun intended)
WeatherWise
WeatherWise 1
What I find most amazing is that a passenger was actually looking out the window, and not staring at an electronic device.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Poor battery life.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
That is quite remarkable.... Or it could be that they were below 10,000 and he actually listened to the Flight Attendant when told to turn off all electronics... LOL
jimmurray333
Jim MURRAY 1
The headline by Jace Larson can be read two ways. Both are correct. The screws obviously worked themselves free of the wing perhaps due to vibration over time. Loose screws happen.
sparkie624
sparkie624 11
As a long time mechanic, I would tend to disagree. To have that many screws to work them selves loose is next to impossible. Sighting Continental Airlines 2574, I would tend to believe that they were next installed and got missed at the last maintenance visit, probably during a scheduled inspection that involved the removal of that panel.
williambaker08
william baker -1
I'm not saying this happen but it sounds to me like someone was starting extra maintence and then not telling anyone about it during shift change. When they put what they were fixing back together they should have seen the extra screws and went on a hunt to put them back. Hence what happen on Continental 2574 a maintence worker took the left side screws out and didn't tell anyone about it so they didn't inspect that side later which is why the de ice boot came off causing the plane to nose dive and crash.
williambaker08
william baker 0
Btw how are you sparkle. Haven't seen you post lately
sparkie624
sparkie624 -1
Been doing great.. Still fixing broken planes.. Of course us mechanics always blame the crews for not fixing and you all pilots blame us for not fixing them... LOL.. Been doing great... Just have not had a lot to say lately, but I couldn't turn down this tread. - Good to see you around... Reminds me of Preacer1 RIP.
williambaker08
william baker 2
Good to see you around too. Ya it's just too good of a post to pass up unlike some. Preacher was always in the right place at the right time and knew excutally what to say. Rip Preacher
williambaker08
william baker 1
And of course we have to break stuff to keep you guys busy lol.
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
I always tell everyone that we cannot run out of Broken Planes...> If we do, I don't have a job.... However, sometimes I wish they would break less often. :)
busheyrk
Richard Bushey 1
Amen. Still miss Preacher's posts.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 1
This is where binoculars would come in handy. The FO could stand in the jetway, airstairs or at the open food service door and look over the upper part of the leading edge that way. In my line of work (NDT inspector), I have to check things that are not accessible due to height or location so binoculars come in handy for such. A small pair that fit in a flight bag is all that is needed. The same could be done for horizontal stabilizers out a passenger window.
Tom21171
Tom Heard 0
IF THE LAST MAINTENANCE EVENT ON THIS LEADING EDGE PANEL WAS DOCUMENTED I'LL BET A SECOND SET OF EYES (iINSPECTION) WAS NOT ENVOLVED.INSPECTION SHOULD BE ENVOLVED AT EVERY LEVEL OF MAINTENANCE TO BETTER INSURE THAT THINGS LIKE THIS DO NOT HAPPEN.
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 0
Whoops? Where did the slat go? Oh well.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
That is probably why the crew missed it... They probably did a walk around with the slats up. When the slats were lowered the holes were revealed to a passenger who was actually paying attention/ Slats up probably covered everything up...

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