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China Rolls out World's Largest Amphibious Aircraft

Soumis
 
The Xinhua News Agency said the AG600 rolled off a production line in Zhuhai in southern China on Saturday. It measures 37 meters (121 feet) in length with a wingspan of 39 meters (128 feet). The report cites Chinese state aircraft maker, the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, as saying the plane is nearly as big as a Boeing 737. (abcnews.go.com) Plus d'info...

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ADXbear
ADXbear 3
I hate having to see ABC news and other ads before seeing the story I clicked on to see, I just close it and move on... If you want us to see your news segments, give it to us like we ask for it.. SO Glad Verizon is buying you away from ABC.. it has to get better.

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locomoco
M.F. LaBoo 6
Sir, I'm impelled to challenge your accuracy and credentials in re Greek mythology.

Icarus and his daddy Daedalus were neither of them gods (and it was the gods who punished Greeks anyway, never the other way round). They were both very much mortal and had been imprisoned in the Cretan Labyrinth (designed, ironically, by Daedalus) by no less than King Minos himself (q.v.)

Daedalus, a clever sort, fashioned wings out of wax and feathers as a means of escape. Icarus, ignoring his flight instructor's warnings, flew too high. The heat of the sun melted the wax, his feathers fell out, and he augered into the sea.

One moral the Greeks drew from this cautionary tale is the danger of succumbing to hubris (in this case, flying too high being exemplary of a mortal striving egotistically to emulate the gods). It can be seen that hubris is still alive and well -- yes, even on this website as one soars high above the safe limits of one's own knowledge base alluding to matters of which his knowledge is regrettably less than sufficient.
blueashflyer
blueashflyer 3
At least this article had a picture included. last article I saw had no photo, so I thought it was a stealth amphibious aircraft
linbb
linbb 1
Looks exactly like a larger version of the Japanese AC that has been in service for years.
jacIII
They resurrected the Martin Mariner;}

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joelwiley
joel wiley 1
A cursory examination of the AG600 (4 engines) and the Martin Mariner PBM (2 engines) leads me to believe that you are not truly concerned with the 'they' and the 'where' of any such resurrection and that you have missed Mr. Correia III semantic meaning.
.
However, according to the Wikipedia site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Naval_Aviation_Museum
the museum has a couple of the better known PBY aircraft but no PBM. Perhaps you are conflating the two.
You can double check on the museum's website if you so desire at:
http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/attractions/aircraft-exhibits/

On the other hand, I happened to run across a PBM much closer to your home at the Pima Air and Space Museum in February of this year, parked next to the HABU (AKA Blackbird AKA SR71):
http://www.pimaair.org/FTP/H1/build3/virtualtour.html

According to Wikipedia (which should be taken with a grain of salt regardless of one's diet) it is the only complete PBM display:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_PBM_Mariner
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 1
Wonder who China is going to sell it to? Fire fighting crews? Just a wonder.

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joelwiley
joel wiley 7
Mr. Hartmann, you are constantly challenging posters on these squawks to document their aviation credentials (certificate level, type rating etc) when they post an opinion. Sir, shouldn't you be challenged for your credentials vis-à-vis firefighting, aerial tanker operations, and policies in the LAFD for the points you have opined?
crpeterson14
Cord Peterson 3
I would agree with you Wiley, seems Flightaware gets a lot of "arrogant know it alls" that have to talk everyone down. Probably for their Ego. Quite frankly that's why I don't comment often. I got sick of it a couple years ago. Never fails to be new ones on here though doing the same thing.

[This poster has been suspended.]

crpeterson14
Cord Peterson 3
Mr.Hartmann

I see that you didn't like what I had to say. If you glance at your squawk comments history from your profile. One would see most of your comments are down voted suggesting people don't like what your saying. You almost always aim and belittle rather than neutrally stating your 2 cents. I did aim indirectly at you and stated what I saw in your comments, Most people just down vote a comment they don't like. Now you know how others feel. If you stop aiming and belittling people you might see a change in your comment ratings.

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joelwiley
joel wiley 3
I doubt that you are type certified in the Martin Mars, CL-215 or CL-415 but I think that doesn't invalidate your opinions on the uses of them in fire suppression. I agree that the smaller the fire in the initial attack the better. To me, the ideal time to hit a wildland fire is when the area is 1 sq. ft. I don't think there is much question of the benefits of an aerial tanker hitting early on, especially in terrain difficult to approach.

I infer that you have a concern about a sort of 'fire fighting industrial complex' which justifies it's budget by pushing large retardant reload bases such as are found at KMMC, Sacramento or KPRC, Prescott to the detriment of craft using water.

A couple of things come to mind: overlooking reload locations and rotary wing aircraft.

(A bit of levity here- if Mrs O'Leary's cow had given two buckets of milk, when she kicked over the lantern, they may have been able to avert the Great Chicago Fire. Urban legend but it supports the early intervention argument)

Land based aircraft loaded with water still require reload bases, a population of properly configured aircraft, and a response mechanism. Amphibious aircraft can reload from an appropriately sized water body. Living in the foothills of the 'Californicated' Sierra Nevada foothills, I am acutely aware of the paucity of available appropriately sized water bodies that can support amphibious aircraft due to terrain and drought-influenced water levels. I expect similar issues affect areas of the Southwest. In a recent year, a CL-215 stationed at KTVL responded to fires along the American River Canyon, scooping from Union Valley Reservoir in El Dorado County. Transit time from scoop to drop was about 5 minutes. However, given conditions in CA, NV, AZ, UT areas, I believe this condition is somewhat rare.

Rotary wing aircraft can also be a significant tool in early response. While their effective range may be less than a fixed wing aircraft, I expect they are more widely available in communities. They also require a smaller reload 'footprint' in that they can reload from a lake (available to an amphib), river, cattle pond, or swimming pool.

You mentioned 'Engine 3' a American LaGrande Type 400 heavy pumper as part of your 'certification'. I presume that it was in service for the VFD at the time. A google search indicated that 1940 was the last production year for the model, which overlaps the production span of the DC-3. Properly maintained, it can still accomplish the mission for which it was built.

FlightAware has a Private Message system built into the discussion area. If you want to use that to contact me the address is my FA userid joelwiley.

G'Day
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 1
In a perfect world, CalFire would have dozens of "water bombers" and choppers available at a few minutes notice. But reality bites! Can anyone here tell us the "wet" costs per hour for the DC-10's is? I'm sure it isn't cheap.
Curent drought conditions have enabled small blazes to grow exponentally, so that within a very short time they are out of control. Both of the current major fires are in fairly rugged terain which limits attacks on the ground. The weather and smoke can severely limit areal attacks. Hopoe for a wet winter!
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
http://www.nifc.gov/PIO_bb/Background/2012FFAircraftFactSheet.pdf

http://www.nifc.gov/PIO_bb/Background/2012FFAircraftFactSheet.pdf

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1234.html

The USFS tanker contracts are no longer available online:

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/contracting/airtankers/airtankers.htm

If I recall correctly, the USCG reported hourly operational cost for a C-130 was about $10K.
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 1
Thanks for the info.
wktaylor
Wilfred Taylor 1
Per Airliners.net this 'rollout' for AG600 amphibious aircraft was discussed in this thread... http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1338653

This acft bare similarity to the Chinese HARBIN SH-5 [1970s--1990s] and Japanese ShinMaywa US-2... both of which ARE marginally smaller than the AG600

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin_SH-5
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShinMaywa_US-2

Also, the Martin Mars was similar in size https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_JRM_Mars. Interesting NOTE in the Wikipedia excerpt is as follows...

"In May 2015, the Hawaii Mars received a small contract to be used briefly for training Chinese pilots. This was done using the Martin Mars to evaluate against civil certification regulations by The International Test Pilot School, on how to handle such a large amphibious aircraft. These pilots will be involved with the Chinese state owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China as they get ready to launch their forthcoming AVIC TA-600 [AG600] airplane.[13] Subsequently, in the summer of 2015, the airplane was put back in service after public outcry, being awarded a 30 day contract from the BC Government to help with a particularly bad fire season.[14]"
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Maybe largest in current production but it seems a bit smaller than the HK-1 (H-4)
flypilot12
flypilot12 4
The HK-1 was a seaplane, not an amphibian. So, that does in fact make this the worlds largest amphibious airplane.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I stand corrected. Thank you.

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joelwiley
joel wiley 1
In my observational experience, limited geographically to the sierra foothills, rotary aircraft do not usually drop retadant but refill buckets from local sources. I know it is a limited parochial view, but....

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joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Your 'helio' which has to go back and 're-arm' with retardant is a straw man argument.
I agree something like the CL-215 can get there 'firstest with the mostest' compared w/ a dipping chopper. Both are valuable tools in a well-stocked tool box.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
A quick search found the following article which supports the assertion that the CL-415 (not CL-215) is a valuable asset.
http://airtanker.org/2013/tony-morris-as-i-see-it/

In the article written in 2013, the author mentions that LA County has contracted for 2 CL-415s every year since 1994. In what year did LA County or LAFD turn down the office for a $1 lease?
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

World's largest seaplane unveiled by Chinese state company

The state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) unveiled the world’s largest amphibious aircraft, dubbed the AG600, Saturday in the southern port city of Zhuhai.

The aircraft, which has a maximum range of 4,500 km (2,800 miles), is intended for fighting forest fires and performing marine rescues, it said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/worlds-largest-seaplane-ag600-chinese-state-company

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