Delta Plane Skids Off Runway at LaGuardia Airport

DAL 1086 audio starts @ 2:37

Mid-Life.. Not sure... That is actually a very old aircraft... Especially seeing how much flying they do each day... I would venture to say that the plane is overall a very high time plane even though it is very well maintained.

CNN is a commercial operation primarily to provide advertisers access to your eyeballs. News and information content is tertiary. </sarcasm>

Its the 24hr new cycle. A 30 second story has to fill 3 hours of time. No cable news channel even tries to report the news anymore. They all try to make the news. Accurate and Concise left the news channels long ago along with their cousin Common sense. Give television up for a week or more. You won't believe how good you'll feel.

I don't mind watching CNN most of the time. However, as a commercial pilot, I have never found someone as annoying and incompetent as Richard Quest. I cringe every time I hear his voice talking about an aviation issue. On top of it all, he has nothing to do with aviation in his background. He's a wannabe Jim Cramer from CNBC. Just sayin.... :)

The MAS370 disappearance was a major happening and their coverage was actually pretty decent then. Forget it past that, plane crash or anything.

"If it bleeds it leads". Blood and guts sells news papers and air time. No one was seriously hurt so the have to sell with almost in teeny print.

It may very well be that CNN "sucks" - I am not an expert on these matters - , but I doubt it can be worse than Fox News!

Everyday event? Rare in the US.

That little dash or slash between things can be awfully important at times. Placed right, it can make you seem like you know something or as in this case, a fool among those that know.

I think that runway's floating at 4000ft at heading 220 xD

If you listen to the LiveATC audio, you can hear the tower calling to to the crashed plane. The plane does not respond. But the tower cannot see them because of low-visibility (RVR).

When you hear the vehicles (Car 100, Car 103) asking to cross the runways, there are still planes inbound, intending to land on a runway.

The piece you missed is that these vehicles are Port Authority Police vehicles. They were the eyes and (for lack of pilot response) the hears of the tower controller.

You can hear live the PA Police issuing an order to close runway 13, when they encounter that the plane is still on or near the runway. You can hear him close the airport moments later, and dispatch Red Team to Runway 13. The on-scene commander is issuing commands that the tower and rescue personnel comply with in a coordinated way to respond to the disaster.

1. He wants the rescue / fire trucks to have free reign of the airfield without worrying about planes running over them, as they respond to and tend to the plane and the people aboard it when it crashed.

2. He doesn't want another plane to crash into the now crashed and disabled pane on the airfield which is actively leaking fuel from its' left wing.

It all seems pretty straight-forward. You just have to realize that those statements about the runway being closed and airport being closed were commands, being spoken by airport police on the scene (airfield) who were in command of that scene, asking for the tower to IMMEDIATELY close the runway, and then the airport.

The planes are lined up to land or depart with narrow tolerances at bus places like LGA. What you didn't hear was a discussion about the merits of closing the runway, and a polite request to the tower to close the runway. There was a multi-ton hunk of metal with lots of souls aboard that was seconds away from landing on Runway 13. What you heard was command issued by an on-scene commander, which was imperative that the tower and rescue personnel act upon immediately. For the safety of all involved.

Hope that settles your questions.

BTW For reference, that on-scene commander is probably making more, much more than the pilots flying the smallish planes in question, and the controllers in the tower. Just look up the salaries of Port Authority Police. Add in seniority pay and rank pay. Then account for over-time payments.

"Can someone explain why a runway is open but not the airport? Listening to atc it sound like 4/22 is "open". Vehicles are asking to cross just like they would if planes were coming and going. However, LGA still seems to be closed."

Low visibility. The airplane (DL 1086) somewhere near the end of Runway 13....uncertain whether it was impinging on Runway 04/22. Abundance of caution, given the weather and low visibility.

I would have thought they were both open. The post below pretty much sums up what you are saying but it does look like they would both be open.

Welcum to New Yawk City. Ya'll can git used to the snow at no extra charge, compliments of Delta.

agreed

He was suckered in because other aircraft had just landed. I was guilty of this in my career too. I think he just didn't quite do it right.

Whaddya mean "downwind"? RW 13 was the runway in use for arrivals, RW 04 for departures. Wind was at "worst" a very slight quartering tail, but mostly a crosswind. "020 @ 10 to 12kts".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UIs3TjltJw

I doubt it.

KLGA 051551Z 01008KT 1/4SM R04/2800V3500FT SN FZFG VV009 M03/M05 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP199 P0006 T10331050

the ILS to 4 requires 5000 RVR. Runway 22 would have had too much of a tailwind component with the previous reported winds, so 13 was the only useable runway for arrivals at the time.

They could have stowed them before shutting them down, could have been part of the checklist...

The edge of 13/31 is just 200 feet from the seawall. A modest deviation off the runway, whatever the cause, got the left wing caught on it real quick. The resulting left yaw brought the nose up on the wall(thankfully avoiding the storm water pump stations). I get the impression the aircraft nose slid down the seawall as opposed to the media screams that they were headed straight towards the water.

The wall was just high enough to keep the bird on the dry side. In effect the energy was dissipated over several seconds, keeping the hull intact and injuries minimal. My guess is all this happened just after they passed the 'Welcome to New York' sign on the seawall.

Doesn't the tower have view of RW4? I'm surprised the tower appears to be lost and only ground personnel inform the tower. What about the pilot? He did not respond for a long time. Had he already evacuated the plane?

Thrust reversers are not part of calculating the Landing Distance Required, only brakes. Runway 13 should have been sufficient despite the 4 knot tailwind component.

Generally speaking the TR's produce more braking than the actual brakes do.

Well, it was a link on their website

There was a posting on FA a little while back about "crab landings". If you don't hit the runway parallel and it is slippery, it could be a wild ride. It appears from the report that they did not go straight toward the berm, but were parallel to it(they took out 1000 ft of fence). It may not been a good landing, but it was some damn good driving. Maybe NASCAR is in their future. Great job of getting stopped!

Hi William, yes, the tail cone section comes off to allow for access and evacuation through the tail exit.

On the DC/MD-9 series there is an emergency exit through the tail cone.

That's the famous D.B. Cooper exit :)

I believe it did. Saw that somewhere, but pilot accepted 4kt tail because minimums were so crappy and I think even below for other rnwy.

I guess it will depend on damage amount. It is a 987 mfg date according to N number, but unless it is just superficial, I doubt it. That's just me.

It probably falls under "The administrator may allow deviation from any rule" category. That engine has known issues with uncontained failures. Maybe this version, even though experimental, is proven much safer than what it replaced. Just a guess. Maybe someone knows the real answer.

Not real sure about the FAA site. What you say is true but it also says P&WJT8D-200 on there originally. No idea why it changed to experimental, but not a P&W man either. It is 1987 mfg AC.

Ignorance is bliss

On average, 217%

'EMAS' is certainly important in this incident/accident (an "accident" because it it DID incur "substantial damage" to the airplane).

The "EMAS" prevented a slippery run-way over-run to end up in the River....which had happened before. Easy to "Google" it. Sadly, even a Continental MD-80 once had this occurrence. (EDIT):? I know of this occurrence....it was a rejected take-off...but Wikipedia seems to have been "scrubbed" of any references. Circa 1987, for those interested.

You're thinking he departed the runway intentionally? From the pictures it looks like he came to rest adjacent to highspeed Mike. That would give him at least another 1750 ft. of runway remaining from the point he came to rest. Beyond that 1750 ft. of runway remaining there is another 327 ft. of EMAS. So why in the world would one make an intentional left turn when the dike and water beyond are only 200 feet from the runway's edge? The centerline is the safest line.

How do you know the pilot "kicked" a rudder to purposely go off the runway? Also, who was flying? Was it the Captain or FO?

I disagree with you regarding the reverse thrusters. In this case, because of the apparent failure of friction braking, reverse thrusters were probably the only thing that stood a chance of slowing the aircraft. It remains to be seen whether or not they were deployed or if so were deployed in time. While I'm completely unfamilliar with LGA, I'm a little confused to why the pilot agreed to land down wind although, I realize that airspace is pretty crowded with two major airports so close. Looks to me like all the evidence in this case, will turn on the information from the recorders. Unfortunately it looks like Delta has a new supply of nuts and bolts

I have to disagree partially with what you are saying... Especially in regards to the Thrust Reversers. Your statement "Brakes and Thrust reversers are totally inept.". TR's cannot be deferred for operations on a contaminated runway because they are the primary force that stops the plane. The Aircraft is equipped with Anti-Skid... The wheels would not have been able to lockup if the a/c was over approx 20 kts.... that does not mean he did not have a failure in a system which we should soon know about. Assuming all systems were working, this does not sound like a weather or mechanical issue... The FDR/CVR will tell the real story. BTW, TR's Do Not Skid on the Runway unless he Flares the Nose Too High :)

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1086/history/20150305/1345Z/KATL/KLGA

MD88 certificated in 1988 (old plane), Owned and Leased from Wilmington Trust Company in Delaware.

Flushing Bay, not the ocean.

Even with maybe a fuel smell, looking at what happened, there were still turds grabbing their bags and taking pics.. Looking at one video, the response unit looked very lackadaisical, not directing exiting passengers at all. Some people need to end up in cold water, get them thinking!!!

Apparently the 3 takeoffs just ahead of them reported OK.

I do not understand what you are saying... The guy was landing and somehow lost control on the runway... Last note from them was the runway braking was considered to be good.

Bingo!!!

As time goes and Pilots get harder to come by, THAT situation may reverse itself.