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Boeing Discovers Faulty Fastener Installation On Undelivered 787 Dreamliners

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Boeing is investigating incorrectly installed fasteners on its undelivered 787 Dreamliners. More than 900 fasteners were reportedly affected per plane. The FAA Administrator plans to address the quality lapse during a visit to Boeing's facilities in South Carolina. Boeing has launched an investigation into a quality problem with its undelivered 787 Dreamliners. Reports suggest that hundreds of fasteners have been incorrectly installed, but there is no immediate safety risk. (simpleflying.com) More...

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ko25701
ko25701 5
Incorrectly torqued fasteners are a rookie mistake that should have been caught during inspections. We used to have to witness the Torque being applied. Maybe the inspectors had poor training?
vaderbird1
S Lee 1
Or the torque wrenches were out of calibration
djames225
djames225 3
No..they said thewy torqued by the head and not the nut. You always hold the bolt head and torque the nut.
quifxandoz
quif xandoz 1
There are 3 components to fastener torque. First is the elastic stretch of the fastener that clamps the parts together (known as Preload), which has to be within certain range determined by the applied load on the fastener. This is the most important part of torque.

Second is the ‘running torque’ required to rotate the nut. That is changed by any lubrication of the threads. Some aerospace fasteners come with a dry lubricant already applied, so the fastener specification is important in this regard - use the correct spec fastener. If the bolt is being torqued, there is also the closeness of the fit in the hole to consider.

Third is the torque required to overcome the friction between the nut/bolt head on the mating surface of the part.

The final torque value is the sum of the three parts. Always desirable to torque the nut if possible as there is less of parts 2 & 3 to account for. Using the specified nut torque on the bolt head instead will result in an under torque situation, which may or may not be within the specified range of torque. As mentioned the work card process spec should be adhered to.
djames225
djames225 1
I know all too well about fastener torque and the calculations engineers must do to achieve the torque required.

Learned, decades ago, that proper torque is asserted via the nut not the head. The Nut torque is critical as it assesses the amount of stretch the threads will have to apply proper clamp force on the joint.

That said we also learned the differences in bolt torquing vs bolt (hydraulic) tensioning. The later can more precise, but it is a mastered art and only used in certain circumstances. Where as torque required can be obtained via a torque device. It is also critical to make sure such device is properly calibrated and calibration maintained. When doing a torque to yield application, (this is seen in areas where it states to torque to a certain amount of ft/lbs (or Nm) and then apply an additional degree rotation) it is also critical to make sure the degree gauge used is in proper calibration.

Either way, the bolts mentioned were improperly torqued. My only hope is Boeing knew enough to discard all fasteners of the area and apply new before going through the torque sequence again. This is done because all bolts would have had the thread stretch measurement skewed and all bolts should have been tightened in a sequence.
jevanb
jevanb 1
maybe the process spec has then TQ`ing the head. everything is in the process spec for every part including fasteners, QA job is to make sure it is Tq to that spec. unless QA was not around to verify. In ST Louis QA verifies everything including the hole final size before the fastener is installed. At least it was that way 20 years ago.
jz8720
A rookie mistake? No. A rookie wide receiver running the wrong route is a rookie mistake. Using the term "rookie" to describe a new employee "supposedly" trained to assist in the manufacturing of a passenger aircraft is unsettling. Boing "has launched an investigation"...really...again? Boeing should be shut down until they get their damn act together. That includes hiring people that are capable of doing their job. If you cannot comprehend the training to correctly torque a fastener, then maybe being a cashier would be a better career choice. I am sure if we go back to hiring those capable of doing a job rather than those who are incapable but "deserve a chance" things will get better.
hctkbt
Howard Tenenbaum 14
So sad. I always revered Boeing as a paragon of USA aviation excellence and prowess. Praying they come to their senses and start using the original engineer and technician driven processes.
johncook1
john cook 2
I agree!
goriordan40
Gerard ORIORDAN 11
"Quality lapse"!!!!
slederman1
Sam Ledeeman 2
There are no bad soldiers, only bad generals.- Napoleon

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

djames225
djames225 42
Will you knock it off with your Boeing/DEI garbage!
It began when the bean counters, who had up and left Washington state and made head office in Chicago, took over engineering duty! Profit Profit Profit
ewrcap
ewrcap 4
Give up! They are one trick ponies. It’s all they know. DEI. They probably can’t even tell you what it stands for. You are dealing with cult believers. No ability to reason.
Nicolus
Nicolus 1
I'd like to know if anyone else heard this "insider" rumor that the CEO's wife didn't want to uproot to Seattle as she didn't want to give up going to the Chicago Theater Opera...
djames225
djames225 1
Uproot to Seattle??? They uprooted from Seattle! Now they have gone and uprooted from Chicago to Arlington Va.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

djames225
djames225 27
Are you blind or just like skirting an issue??
Let's haul off and place blame other places when it's the head office idiots who call the shots. "Make us money we don't care how" Which is why they are in the mess they are in. Boeing issues started lomg ago but it seems both you and Overdue put blinders on and point the blame solely at others, namely DEI candidates
CAH747
How about finding who or what found the improperly installed part and telling the (media) inspections are working.. then correcting the fault? Oh well, telling the facts is not newsworthy, just scaring people.. is NEWS.
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 15
If you are going to make that assertion, please provide us some statistics to back up your allegation.
RichardFMallory
Richard Mallory 4
Got a problem with women Bill?
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue 0
Are you a race baiter? No, I don't have a problem with women. Do you? I do have a problem with "anyone" who is hired "becuase" of race and gender, and not aptitude and intelligence! And so should you! Wise up!
djames225
djames225 4
Here..let me fix your "foot in the mouth" comment: "I do have a problem with "anyone" who is hired "becuase" of race and gender, and not aptitude and intelligence"

For some reason I think it should have stated: "I do have a problem with "anyone" who is hired without the proper aptitude, paperwork and intelligence, to do the job properly!" You have a very "strange" fixation on DEI, and NOT the issue at hand!
Nooge
Nooge 3
Bill was Overdue to embarrass himself again
ewrcap
ewrcap 3
Of course for years white males were hired based on race and gender and that was ok with you. What are you afraid of? BTW, if you look at the major screwups lately at UA and WN, it’s all white males.
gelrod2354
Mike Elrod 8
I have no credibility in aviation matters, but I have owned and managed businesses many years. Boeing came to SC because of government incentives and a right to work state with anti union policy. I hear the comments about management, and profits, but I begin to think what is really at play. Management can't overcome a poisoned culture with the front line workers. Companies don't make money. They do things right, and profits are a result. Managers often ignor this. Who created and sustains this turmoil? Who most stands to gain? Management, shareholders, governments, or unions. I don't know, but whenever I hear all the finger pointing, I fall back to follow the money.
AlanZelt
Alan Zelt 12
Not only should they move corporate back Seattle, but they should also move 787 production back to Everett.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 6
The usual overpriced management trying to save a few pennies by trying to go cheap, but instead end up costing the company billions with problems like this.
Nooge
Nooge 0
I see you never achieved the rank pf " management "
Joystick2969
Stephen Rogers 3
The sad thing is that before someone becomes a whistleblower, they usually go through reporting channels to get things fixed. In a lot of company cultures, that can be a career ending decision, especially if cost or schedule is impacted.

The fastener installation problem is unreal. People who are putting together an aircraft should know more about how to torque fasteners than high school shop students. How can they get that far without it being detected?

If they don't get the basics under control, the company will go under.
dann403aln
Dan Nelson 4
Ulimitly, the customers will define quality for Boeing.
augerin
Dave Mathes 4
...as a long since A&P, I guess the thing that really bothers me are the people installing this crap...do they not know or just not care about the shoddy work they turn out...it can't just be management...
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 4
Is ANYONE running the show at Boeing?
francrimi
francrimi 2
For the purpose of public safety, we need articles like this to keep coming out and keeping everyone informed. The best way to get a publicly traded company to straighten out is to expose them. Boards of Directors of these types of companies are all heavily invested shareholders.
N5329K
Robin White 2
Not sure how, given what they know and don't know, they can say with any believability that existing a/c are not affected by this "lapse". Really?
fredwyse
fred wyse 4
When I was a kid the saying was: 'You only get what you pay for.' Boeing moved to the South to satisfy Wall Street. The saying is still true: You only get what you pay for. That learning curve long ago reached its mean result. This is the best it will ever get for Boeing.
utahcamera
Tim Smith 3
Can you imagine the courage it took to climb into the Boeing Starliner?
djames225
djames225 1
Can u imagine the cursing being done, under breath of course, by those 2 astronauts as they are still at the ISS.

Or they could be be happy as they were just to test and not become long haul ISS crew.
franzdumont
FRANCOIS DUMONT 2
Poor training and qualified people may be involved about rules and quality practices in security and reporting.
avionik99
avionik99 2
"The incorrectly installed fasteners were torqued from the head instead of the nut."

A trained and skilled sheet metal mechanic knows how to correctly do this job. Obviously the hired mechanics do not! So perhaps dei did play a role? I cannot believe of all the mechanics doing this job not a one knew it was wrong? And to speak up? A well trained union mechanic would have known. Obviously none of these employees knew their job and had proper training perhaps due to a language barrier?
locomoco
M.F. LaBoo 3
Yeah, them Suthn folks ain't talk vurry good Murican.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 1
wtf. They just need to close shop and be done w it. We're heading for a major incident with all these f*ck ups. It's coming, I just hope I won't be in that plane.
WhitneyWSmith
WHITNEY SMITH 1
Are you sure???
tkboxer
Tim Blaney 1
You're watching a great American company self-destruct.
FitzHenry1105
FitzHenry1105 1
The fact that HEADS have not ROLLED shows that Boeing cares neither for its one-time standards nor its customers, nor its end-users (us).

For instance: Despite ALL, the CEO is allowed to hang around until 12-31-2024. He should be copying his resume at Kinkos! WHAT is the Board THINKING (if at all)?

Cavalier regard for safety in transportation should be actionable. Boeing is hundreds of miles off course, and evidently not responding to radio queries. It is UNCONSCIONABLE.

Signed: A One World Platinum / Emerald member of the flying public.
RobertBurrows
👍
Nooge
Nooge 0
THANKS for HELPING me with WHAT you think is IMPORTANT with this annoying HABIT
mutrock
Mark Kortum 1
Thank God it is only the undelivered ones!
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 3
So you think....lol. How many issues have gone undetected? I bet many.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -9
I'll say it again, Boeing will be bankrupt in 5 years!
yr2012
matt jensen 8
At this rate it may be less. Look up Comac. Boeing gave their tech to Comac in a deal in 2011. FAA finally put sanctions on the company in 2021 - banning US companies from doing biz with them. Too late - horses out of the barn.
Nooge
Nooge 0
And your professional and acedemic credentials leading to your expertise about the financial condition at Boeing ?
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -9
Agreed, I'm aware of Comac, and it's part of my rationale!
ravanviman
hal pushpak 1
I doubt it, Bill. Taxpayers, you and I (and the US DoD) will be bailing them out.
PeterMcDevitt
Peter McDevitt 2
I’ve had thoughts about this, Boeing may have reached a point where they will have to find a ‘white knight’. The number of firms that could fill that role have to be very limited. I’m thinking maybe Lockheed? I do remember when they built great airliners
merlock
Merell Matlock 1
Yup. Too big to fail.
Nooge
Nooge 0
Yup. Too big to fail. lol

America needs Boeing to succeed like we needed GM to succeed ...a lot of ignorant people objected to that 'bailout"

You should refresh your memory on "bailouts " Most of that went to General Motors, which paid back about $39 billion of the $49.5 billion invested.

We are getting ready for war over Taiwan....over what ?

Chips

Yup We cant do without oil chips or planes
Nooge
Nooge 0
You do say nonsense again ....and again and again

Boeing is not going bankrupt
msetera
msetera -3
What's more important, Diversity/Equity/Inclusion, or Quality/Productivity/Results?
djames225
djames225 0
You sure you're not an Overdue relative? You both have this fixation on 1 thing without thinking it through! That and you love blaming others for mistakes that should be addressed at the top!

BTW..DEI can equal QRP but you two can't seem to wrap your heads around that! Boeing itself, in its higher ups, failed the later. The ways things look, they decided to skip over quality to get the P.R. Seems whistleblowers and employees agree on that as well.
EdSchijf
Ed Schijf 0
I agree with you, Howard! Let Boeing buy some cleaning machines to get rid of numerous useless managers and CEO's. Give the company back to the original engineers and technicians who made Boeing great in the old days. Start again at scratch!!!
RickBennette
Rick Bennette 0
Ever since the deceptive crooks from McDonnell Douglas took over, Boeing has gone down the crapper. I avoid flights on newer Boeing aircraft made after the takeover. As long as these greedy crooks are in charge, Boeing will continue being a substandard company making unsafe planes with the cheapest parts from China.
Jaime1949
turn out the light the party is 0ver Boeing
lyndenmcphee
Denny McPhee 0
End-stage capitalism is ugly.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

augerin
Dave Mathes 9
...Arthur, does this have anything remotely to do with the Boeing issue in discussion?..
Joystick2969
Stephen Rogers 4
I think so. Quality needs to be built in, not inspected in. The workers and supervisors need to all work together to make a quality product.

Other countries are doing better at controlling quality than we are. Demming found that out when he was rejected by Detroit and accepted in other parts of the world.

Our attitude here has become you don't pay me enough to do quality work. Pride in workmanship has gone way downhill.
Nooge
Nooge -1
Another old white man who thinks America is not Great anymore
Joystick2969
That's not what I think at all.

I'm not sure what age and race have to do with it.

I do see a bad attitude that is causing quality problems.

The quality of my work is not dependent on my pay. I always do the best I can and take pride in what I do.

A lot of people today seem to be proud of the fact that the quality of their work is tied to their perception of fair pay.
Nooge
Nooge -2
Demming never wrote about people who believe that only they always do their best and take pride in what they do.

They say things The workers and supervisors need to all work together to make a quality product and their attitude and character is no longer prevalent in the workforce today

I do know is that cars last way longer than they did

Not sure what age and race have to do with ?

Its usually old white men who have issues with Detroit


Glory days well they’ll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl’s eye
Glory days, glory days

Well there’s a girl that lives up the block
back in school she could turn all the boy’s heads
Sometimes on a Friday I’ll stop by
and have a few drinks after she put her kids to bed
Her and her husband Bobby well they split up
I guess it’s two years gone by now
We just sit around talking about the old times,
she says when she feels like crying
she starts laughing thinking about

Chorus

Now I think I’m going down to the well tonight
and I’m going to drink till I get my fill
And I hope when I get old I don’t sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
Nooge
Nooge -1
THANK you USA ? what a patriotic ignoramus

America is great AND you dont NEED to WRITE like THIS to prove your level of IQ not to mention the lack of intelligence in knowing what was to be done with a dealer problem ..

You fit the demographic for COLT 45 membership

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