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Extreme heat can snarl flights even without a cloud in the sky

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“The weight at which you can operate (max gross takeoff weight) decreases as the temperature goes up,” explained Kathleen Bangs, a former airline pilot and current spokesperson for FlightAware, which tracks flight status in real time. “The hotter and more humid the surrounding air is, the more aircraft components and airfoil performance degrade.” (www.usatoday.com) More...

Jenny Kobe
News junkiePromoterAnnouncerAutobiographer

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4Jan
MmJan Coopman 4
I totally understand that, likely more than most. At year 18 of MS, heat and humidity do me in, too!
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
Sorry to hear it.

Keep on keepin' on.
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Propwash122
Peter Fuller 13
Aviation professionals and well-informed outside observers already know about this (which begs the question of why it got squawked), but given the usual aviation misinformation and inaccuracy in the general press, this USA Today article isn’t bad.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 13
Bully for you but I did not know this and appreciate the information.
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[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

jetjocknj
jetjocknj -9
@bentwing60. You need to get educated on climate change. You can start with IPCC reporrting. Google it.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 5
And, if you read the IPCC report, be sure to also read the book "Unsettled" by Steven Koonin, former Under Secretary for Science, US Dept. of Energy under the Obama administration, for a critique of the methodology underlying some of their conclusions.
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avionik99
avionik99 3
Yes indeed the greedy power hungry big business of Global warming headed by that Huge bureaucracy called the IPCC can 100% be trusted as they have no agenda whatsoever. None of their power or paychecks are tied to climate change and of course they listen to all the science that states it is not caused my man.
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jetjocknj
jetjocknj -3
@avionic99. They're scientists, not bureaucrats. You shouldn't criticize their work or ethics if you haven't read their work--and understood the science.
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tisotamen
TZVI COHEN 2
Even if the scientists are right, the companies and governments that deal with the issue do so only because of politics and money and do not really reduce global warming
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 2
That are NOT scientists.
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jimjallen
Jim Allen 1
You can’t exactly criticize scientists if you can’t even use the English language properly. That being said.. can we go back to aviation? Thank You
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Nooge
Nooge 1
Al is really James Mountain Inhofe

Will be throwing snowballs and spitballs until his dirtnap but then it will be too late for his grandkids

NOT a scientist but a cult victim
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 0
No it won't. Relax. There is less of an emergency than when 90% more of naturally occurring weather events caused deaths than today....all BECAUSE of the mitigating factor, fossil fuels.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -6
The unelected IPCC is part of the globalist agenda in league with the unelected WEF where " You willmown nothing and be happy".

If you want an alternate view EXTOLLING the benefits of fossil fuels and CO2, avail yourself of the material of the inestimable Alex Epstein and try to refute the contention.
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godutch
godutch -4
Exactly!
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jetjocknj
jetjocknj 1
@godutch. You too.
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godutch
godutch 1
What do you drive? What size house do you live in? Do you take the bus or ride the bike to work...or to the grocery store? Do you buy ANY products from China or India? If you are 'educated' on global warming, then walk the talk. The largest producers of carbon are India and China...what's happening on THAT front? You libs want our money to somehow (crazily) STOP global warming, but what are THEY doing...other than continuing to pollute by manufacturing sh_t for us?
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ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 5
CO2 footprint by country in 2019:
1. China: 12,705 Million Tons (population 1,425,671,352)
2. USA: 6,001 Million Tons (population 339,996,563)
3. India: 3,395 Million Tons (population 1,429,306,079)
4. EU: 3,383 Million Tons (population 742,240,324)

However, the CO2 footprint per person is:
1. USA: 17.6 Tons per person
2. China: 8.9 Tons per person
3. EU: 4.5 Tons per person
4. India: 2.4 Tons per person
Source: https://www.wri.org/insights/interactive-chart-shows-changes-worlds-top-10-emitters

So it's the average American who actually contributes most to CO2 emissions!
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wskessler
Billy Kessler 3
Good point.
And consider that much of Chinese industry is producing stuff for us. If a Chinese subsidiary of a U.S. company that has outsourced its dirtiest, most polluting work produces makes goods that are put on a ship or plane to be sold here to Americans, who should that CO2 be counted against?
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 2
And which country by far least pollutes and has the strictest environmental standards? China is building new coal-fired plants every week and understands the critical importance of cheap energy. They will never put themselves at the disadvantage Western liberals put their countries.

They will NEVER follow the protocols the West imposes on itself and the irony is they grow rich selling the West solar panels et al that PRECISLY guarantee our weakness and their strength....While they burn fossil fuels ad infinitum to manufacture, ship and sell us our own demise.

Good work, chaps!
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ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 3
Solar energy production by country in 2022:
1. China 1,053,115 MW
2. EU 200,647 MW
3. USA 113,015 MW
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country
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thekenfields
Alan Kenfield -4
Just what country is EU? If you are going to post stats please get the details correct.
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Nooge
Nooge 1
Whataboutism

You can always see the lack of academic credentials when YOU see WRITING like THIS

Not to mention inability to use spell check
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jetjocknj
jetjocknj 0
Read the IPCC report and, assuming you understand it, then talk to me.
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[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

jetjocknj
jetjocknj 5
Anti-science - anti-knowledge.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -3
As usual, the usual suspects abuse the language for their ends.

Science demands rigorous debate over any posited theory or belief system whether or not it has been generally accepted or not.

The Earth was flat until scientists who were vilified at the time broke through the narrative hat was supported by those in power precisely BECAUSE the science threatened that power.

Do we see any parallels with today's situation?

Who stands to gain with these draconian and authoritarian climate initiatives?

Who loses big time if we revert to common sense and publically accepted protocols?

ALWAYS follow the money.
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PDLanum
Philip Lanum 3
"The Earth was flat until scientists who were vilified at the time broke through the narrative hat was supported by those in power precisely BECAUSE the science threatened that power."

The Earth has been described as a globe since Eratosthenes in 276 BCE. The flat Earthers are uneducated Christians for the most part. Your narrative is an argument about religion - not science.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
At the time, it WAS the science.
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Nooge
Nooge 1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day

ALWAYS follow the money.

Open Secrets


The coal mining industry provides the biggest source of campaign dollars within the mining industry, and has supported Republicans in each of the past 13 election cycles.

In the 2012 cycle, the industry peaked with $15.3 million in total contributions. That figure decreased to $11 million in the 2014 nonpresidential election. Companies involved in coal mining gave Democrats a mere 4 percent of their donations in this election cycle, an unprecedented low


Jim Justice

Net worth $1.2 billion

Contribution since 2017 to Trump campaign and supporting committees: $100,000

Contributions to pro-Trump super-PAC America First Action: $27,500

Justice inherited a coal-mining business from his father and still owns mines in five states. He also inherited his parents’ political preferences.



Who loses big time when we refuse to accept reality the grandkids who inherit big Als planet
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 0
No. Greenies contribute as well. The ff industry that made your life galactically better than it would have been without them are entitled, no, DUTY-bound to fight the impoverishing, narcissistic self-aggrandized virtue signaling anti-human science-deniers in the anti-fossil fuel movement.
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KineticRider
Randy Marco -1
Typical response from an ignoramus.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
Wonderful contribution.

Thanks for literally nothing.
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KineticRider
Randy Marco 0
Your sooooo far down the rabbit hole it's best you never come out.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -1
Be careful.

Yesterday's conspiracy theories (ex. Vaccines don't prevent infection and spread) arev today's facts.
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Cleffer
Cleffer -7
The argument isn't about global warming, it's about the cause of it.
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jimjallen
Jim Allen 10
How about no arguments about global warming? We can talk density altitude and the impact of weather on the mechanics of flight and have a very civil discussion.
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michaelfossum
M Fossum 3
From all the news stories about this topic across all media types, you’d have thought they had discovered the sun.
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GreggB57
Gregg Bender 4
How about sticking to the topic for once, folks?
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HarrisonV
Harry Venison 3
Wouldn't that be nice for a change? It's all the political extremist's that have ruined the squawk list. It's rarely about aviation anymore.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -2
No, this is fun but by all means state something topical. No one will object by wasting their time complaining about it.
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yhsag1
Philip Armour 2
DeHaviland Beavers couldn’t fly after 10.30am in summer on our farm when spreading superphosphate.
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jkeifer3
Joe Keifer 1
Get an Otter.
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HarrisonV
Harry Venison 3
FlightAware Squawk list has become a cesspool of political opinions instead of discussing aviation, anyone trying to state their own political views can fk off. And Will be voted down instantly.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -9
I sure as shite am down voting yours and recommend everyone do the same.

If you don't like it, don't read it. Skip to the next remark that pleases you. Don't presume to speak for others.

You're on your 5th booster, aren't you. ;)
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Bursk
Randall Bursk 2
Quality of life for the human race, wildlife, sealife, food, all is disappearing fast. 50% of the population every year is without water part of the year. If this is a cycle in the weather. We still need science and society to control waste. South Africa cut their water usage to 13 gallons per person per day. US uses over 100 gallons
per person per day. Georgia peach farmers lost 90% of this year’s harvest to night time temperatures to warm. Who do you blame. Politicians, scientists, God, greedy rich fossil-fuel people. We need to work together. Longer we drag our feet. Harder it will be, more people suffer. 118 million people worldwide looking for new life. That number grow over a billion people if we can’t solve earlier than later. Good flights.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 2
South Africa not only reduced its daily water usage per person, it is also exceeding its emission goals. Yay! But how? The country's grid is so poorly maintained due to incompetence, corruption and outright theft of copper wire for sale on the black market that they have what they euphemistically call "load shifting" or rolling blackouts. Even just a few years ago the power would go out for maybe 6-8 hours a day. Now 11+ hours a day is the norm throughout much of the country. The Western Cape may be the exception. If the pumps running the water system can't turn then water consumption will go down. My cousin's widow, who still lives there, says the conditions pose quite a challenge for food preparation and storage.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -3
No.

There is the same amount of water on the Earth as there has always been. It just needs to be cleaned as always.

Every doomsday prediction regarding the climate (including global COOLING in the 60s...I mean, come ON people) hasn't panned out...but the panic merchants keep spooning it out and the easily-panicked keep it alive.
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HarrisonV
Harry Venison 1
It's called Climate Change, yes it gets cooler in some areas, but a lot of that can be contributed to the melting of the ice caps which will bring cooler air further south to us. The displacement of water is the problem, it will rain excessively in one area causing massive floods, while there's a drought in another and crops don't grow. It's more of a balance upset than anything, whether that's caused by or accelerated by humans can be debated all day long, the scientific fact is that it IS happening.
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Mberto1938
Mario Bertoletti 1
Nothing new. Posted in India as Station Manager in the early 70s I had a flight delayed more than 12 hors because temperature would not allow takeoff (Acft: DC8/63)
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buchrob
buchrob 1
Aircraft have indivisual operational limits. There is a well-reported 2017 incident in Phoenix, Arizona, whdn several Bombardier CRJ flights were canceled because the outside air temperature was averaging 49°C - beyond that aircraft's maximum allowable ambient operating temperature.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 1
For a discussion of the recent heat waves in the Northern hemisphere and their causes I would recommend Clifford Mass's blog, his July 20 entry. He discusses the situation in Phoenix, AZ, towards the end of his post. He is a Professor of Atmospheric Science at the College of the Environment, University of Washington (Seattle) and usually writes about NW weather. He does not doubt that the planet is slowly warming. But he is also very skeptical about the media's alarmist portrayal of weather events. And, by the way, the Southern hemisphere has been experiencing an unusually cold winter at the moment. A climate scientist in Argentina told me it is has been very cold (and the skiing is great!) this year. Johannesburg had its first snow in 11 years. https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/07/is-global-warming-causing-massive.html?m=1
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PDLanum
Philip Lanum 5
Clifford Mass has become a joke. He was a regular commentator on KUOW (NPR station at UW in Seattle) until he started harping his anti-climate change rants.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 3
Yes, he was on weekly on KUOW. But NPR is fully onboard with the alarmist climate catastrophe narrative. The board running KUOW is even more so. If you check the bios of the 24 current board members they are either lawyers, accountants, techies drawn from the Seattle scene (Amazon, MSFT, etc), public relations, an"event planner" (whatever that is) and others. I believe one was an engineer. None are trained in one of the hard sciences and certainly none have training in weather or climate. When Prof. Mass refused to ascribe every very hot/cold day, rainy spell or drought to AGW, he was canned. His crime was giving a rational, science based meteorological explanation for changes in the weather. As he does for the recent spate of heat waves here and abroad in the blog post I referenced. Can't have a dissenting opinion in this day and age.
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PDLanum
Philip Lanum 3
He was on KPLU also - kicked off due to political rants.
He was kicked off KUOW when most of the people you list with derision were not board members.

Nice Try.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 2
He was kicked off KUOW because of statements about admissions policies and math standards at UW. Horrors!

"University of Washington Professor of Atmospheric Science Cliff Mass spoke to KING 5 Friday after losing his second part-time weather gig at a public radio station.

This time, it was Tacoma based KNKX (Formerly KPLU) who picked up Mass’ normally non-controversial weather forecasts and discussions after 2011.

Mass moved to the station after he was taken off the air at the University of Washington owned KUOW over controversial statements involving mathematic standards.

His latest removal was not over what he said on air, but what he posted on his well-known personal blog, which notifies viewers that it covers weather, climate, and current events. In this case, the current events he covered involved his walk in downtown Seattle in the wake of protests where some in the crowd broke store windows, looted and set police cars on fire.
"What I saw had a big effect on me. Seeing how much was boarded up. Blocks and blocks" said Mass.

He said he sympathizes with the Black Lives Matter movement, but he does not think police should be defunded and that city and state leaders should be speaking out more about the damage in downtown and individual "thugs" who used the cover of protests to carry it out.

But it was his drawing of parallels between destruction in downtown Seattle and a critical point in Jewish and European history that is at the heart of his departure from KNKX.

That event is known as Kristallnacht. In November of 1938, Hitler Youth, and members of the SA, also known as "brown shirts," led two days of attacks on Jewish owned stores and synagogues, also resulting in arrests and murders.

Mass is Jewish and said his reaction to what he saw in Seattle triggered an emotional chord."
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/meteorologist-cliff-mass-loses-job-at-another-radio-station-over-controversial-comments-about-seattle-riots/281-c8658179-552f-46ef-af53-8f3d9787d0c3

Yeah, that was just another "Summer of Love".

So he was fired for expressing his personal opinions. Can we get back to talking about aircraft and flight?
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -1
After that alluminating and thoughtful message about tyranny and the current zeitgeist, not bloody likely.

I love aviation too....Made possible by life and liberty-giving fossil fuels. ;)
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
*illuminating. :))
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover -2
Oh yes we can and are doing here. That prof btw has an excellent lawsuit against that stupid radio outlet.

Aren't democrats embarrassed that they can't make any headway with their destructive policies (DEI, ESG, CRT, grooming, etc.) UNLESS they censor and ignore any argument against the narrative.

There is no greater tell than the pov unwilling to engage AND actively encouraging censorship.
These people automatically lose that argument because they are unwilling (afraid) to have it...because they are wrong.
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AlanGlover
Alan Glover 0
Yes NPR, the touchstone for all things scientific and truthful. They are a leftist media outfit....He is a climate expert. The joke is someone who chooses to get their climate (anything, really) info from the former and not the latter.

Keep in mind folks, these are the people who claim all blacks for their own and call any black conservative who thinks for themselves an Uncle Tom. I can't think of anything more racist, presumptuous or self-regarding.
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Propwash122
Peter Fuller 3
Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I’m recalling that a few years ago during a hot spell in Phoenix some aircraft types couldn’t legally depart KPHX because the temps were above what their certifications allowed. I think the fix was to do more testing to expand the allowable temp range for those types.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 3
The temperature at Phoenix Sky Harbor reached 122 degrees on June 26, 1990, and the airport shutdown then. Despite that the local news is ignoring the record and at least one local radio station KTAR) is saying that the temp of 119 recorded on 7/20 "shattered" the old record. Meh.
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BDaleR
Byron Russell 1
Just before we moved to the Phoenix area in 1997 I recall a temp of 124 being reported for Sky Harbor, although I can't find that now as a record. Flights were shut down then, too. The first summer after we moved I remember my wife and I walking around Old Town Scottsdale. We learned that it was 118 that day. We were feeling bit light headed and curtailed our perambulations. Didn't do that again. But I don't remember flights being canceled or delayed.
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Zot22
Bab Bezat 1
It was good to learn that "Airfoils are aerodynamic surfaces like wings that help aircraft fly."... [sarcasm]
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btweston
btweston 4
Where do you go to school? Your teachers really need to hone their methods.
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