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  • 37

Airbus Vows to Challenge the Secret Boeing 737 MAX Deal that Stunned the Paris Air Show

Soumis
 
Airbus SE vowed to put up a fight to undo a $24 billion deal landed by rival Boeing Co. for 737 Max planes that proved to be the sales coup of this year’s Paris Air Show. (fortune.com) Plus d'info...

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siriusloon
siriusloon 8
I fully expect that it will eventually emerge that Boeing slashed its prices to the bone to get what is basically a "re-launch" customer to buy them and save the MAX, if not Boeing itself. You may recall that Boeing whined that Bombardier gave a good deal to Delta when it bought the C Series (now the A220), but lost the case -- and an order for Super Hornets from the RCAF.

Immoral of the story? Practically giving them away at or close to cost is evil incarnate when anyone else does it, but Boeing thinks it's perfectly OK when they do it. Sooner or later, karma will bite Boeing's ass and we all know that karma is a bitch.

The people who ran Boeing up until circa 2000 must be horrified at what's happened to a once-great company.
lecompte2
lecompte2 3
WE all know that Air Canada got 2 for the price of one, again Boeing trying to hurt the C-series.
lecompte2
lecompte2 2
Further, the person that made the decision to buy the 737 at Air Canada was later fired.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -7
Oh, you mean the most popular aircraft in the world? And that's why Air Canada is GARBAGE!

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rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
What's BS?? Noeing practically gave away B737-700's ($21 mil a piece vs the about $48Mil they should have got) to United to kill any thot of United trying out a C-Series, yet, in the same breath, bitched and even went so far as to have additional tariffs applied to the C-Series, when they had no clear evidence how much Delta paid!! It lost...
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
*Boeing not Noeing

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rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
You know...We all butt heads in here from time to time, it's a given. However 1 crappy/miserable/low reply, such as your's to Chris, above, is bad enough! 2, well I think that's pushing it with the members here. Please take those types of replies and move along!!
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -4
After you!
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 3
And someone tight with Boeing is at the DOD. Tell me again how the Air Force, and any other branch would have ANY chance of getting anything other than Boeing!!!

Wake up, drop the koolaid people, the fix is in! Boeing will survive, if it kills the entire country.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos 0
I suspect you’ll survive thogh, right, because you support Airbus. The key to immortality l!
nasdisco
Chris B 6
I fully expect the EEC to investigate this 'deal" and to show that Boeing is dumping Max's at a price that cannot be justified to support profit. Sanctions will follow.

Payback for Boeing's/US actions over the A220.....
ewrcap
David Beattie 3
Yes, the EEC thinks they run the world. They investigate EVERYBODY who competes with the French, even when there is no equivalent French product. They are petty, and jealous that Google and Apple are world beating companies from America and continually investigate and threaten them. This is one of the reasons the UK wants out. As far as Airbus being left out of the bidding, since when is ANY company required to get bids from every possible supplier? If I decide to buy a Ford, does the Chevy dealer have the right to show up at my door demanding I look at their product? The French have a difficult time understanding private enterprise but IAG is a private company and can buy products from whoever they damn please!
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
So basically what you are saying is that it is fine for Boeing to bitch about an aircraft manufacture's sales to an airline, then US government places HUGE tariffs on that aircraft so that it could not compete on Boeing's "turf", but let someone else do it against Boeing and all of a sudden it is not right?
Considering how cheap Willie Walsh is, and that the IAG narrowbody fleet is majority Airbus, yes I can see a huge Boeing order, for a single narrowbody aircraft family concerning. If Willie had said, "we have a LOI for 75 MAX, 40 777x, 20 787-9, 15 787-10, Im betting neither EU agency would have been concerned
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -8
Airbus started first. Boeing is only defending its interests.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
Explain to me how Airbus started it first?
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -3
You can't seem to read. Airbus receives loans with below-market rates from several European countries, and also RLI. There you go, AGAIN!
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 4
I asked again how Airbus started it? Boeing was receiving subsidies/grants/well below market rate loans long before Airbus arrived!
I can read just fine, can also do research and realize world history, but it seems you have a thorn up your backside against anything European. There I don't go again.
No I don't have a thorn up my backside against Boeing, but if they want to play on a level field, treat all the same, and YES, EVERY aircraft manufacture has received assistance..Boeing, Embraer, Airbus, Douglas/MD, Bombardier..shall I keep going??
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -2
I tried to explain to you but your hatred for America and your Euro ass-kissing keeps getting in the way. When Europe pays back the Marshall Plan it owes, perhaps then, finally, the American taxpayer, will stop subsidizing the EUROPEAN military and aviation businesses.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
You explained absolutely nothing. Boeing also receives below market rates and RLI. I have no hatred of the US but you sure as heck have 1 for Europe.
You know what....I'm done any sort of communication with you. Your deflection of hate is distasteful!!!
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -2
See ya later, loser!
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
Question I have is, why all the "hostility" towards the french when Airbus SE's headquarters are in the Netherlands and both Germany and France have the same 11.63% ownership in the company.
As for your Ford statement, if you were a diehard Chevy owner for decades, and the family all had Chevy, then suddenly you bought a Ford...yeah, I'm pretty sure the Chevy dealer would be calling to find out what happened and if he could "make it right".
electronpusher9
Steven monfrini -1
The French have had a hard on for Boeing since before WW 2 when it was Douglas the really screwed them.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
Ok so what has that got to do with all this...the french may have had a tiff with Douglas, what has that got to do with Airbus SE asking questions?
electronpusher9
Steven monfrini 0
Airbus has been getting subsides from all the countries since the conception of the company. The French and Germans governments have been the driving force. The French wanted to be able to compete with America but hasn't been able to since she lost an entire generation in WW1. The French were embarrassed in WW2 and has been jealous of the Americans ever since. They were the driving force behind the grounding of the 737 Max. . And the question of the groups headquarters non-consequential. Also, being a supposed free state, it's none of Airbuses business how anyone else does business. Another thing ii the deal happened at the Paris Air Show. French soil. Understand the French arrogance. And brother it's a big thing.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -1
They have NO right to ask questions.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -6
Absolutely, the EU wants to bully, but good luck doing that with Trump. Get ready for tariffs on $169.2 billion dollars, which is the trade deficit. The EU better stop launch aid and providing loans at below market rates, or the French farmers will roast Macron alive.

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electronpusher9
Steven monfrini 5
Sounds like the Airbus,read France, thought all of the airlines would toe the line for punishment of Boeing.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 6
No..it sounds like Airbus may have caught Boeing doing a deal much like Boeing thought Bombardier did to Delta...much like it did to United..slashing the heck out of the bottom line price. Probably would not have been caught on radar had it been another airline/consortium, except Willie is cheap and IAG is a majority Airbus narrowbody.

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Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 4
Airbus knows a rat when they see it, and the Boeing deal smells worse than an open sewer on a hot humid day.

In Europe, it's illegal to do dumping deals to screw other corporations. In America, it's getting to be standard business operations. How much of a bailout are you willing to pay the taxes to support? The government is bankrupt now to a level it NEVER HAS BEEN BEFORE! You want to 'bail out' Boeing while their investors run to Swiss accounts to hide their cheap money? You do realize that investors pay the lowest taxes, right. You want to pay for their fantastic Christmas, and next private jet?

You better get busy... They want their money!
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -2
Really?! Is that why Airbus was found guilty of receiving loans with below market interest rates, as well as launch aid?
Jackx9
Don Quixote -4
Agreed John, I'm not a sidestick kind of guy either.
chalet
chalet 4
Although it is only an LOI rather than a full firmed contract, American must have extracted an impossible discount, shall we say 60% off leaving Boeing with a less than a paper thin profit.
jg2112
Jeff Griffin 5
What does American have to do with this?
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes -1
They had a hand in the creation of the 737 MAX.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 2
What we human beings call "a loss leader".
canuck44
canuck44 6
If someone is offered a product at an attractive price and delivery schedule, contracts do not necessary have to be bid except for public entities where this is mandated. Boeing needed this order to prove the Max will sell in spite of current problems and to penetrate a market they do not have access. IAG is responsible to its Board and stockholders. Airbus is acting butt hurt like a well known political party.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 10
If I remember correctly, and it has been brought up already, didn't Boeing "complain" when Bombardier supposedly sold the C-Series to Delta at below costs (which they did not btw), yet did the same thing to United (thou that deal was later upgraded to the MAX)? Now a nearly all Airbus narrowbody conglomerate suddenly has a letter of intent for 200 MAX units whilst other airlines are awaiting the outcome from the regulators first. Yes, I can see that raising eyebrows. I wouldn't call that being butt hurt. Do you really think Willie Walsh put the buy order to his board and stockholders? No.
siriusloon
siriusloon 7
The key phrase in your comment is "Boeing needed this order". The question is what did they do to get it. Boeing's management also has shareholders to answer to and if this order is at or close to (or below) cost, I doubt all of those shareholders will be happy.
pilotjag
pilotjag 3
Three more great articles...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-20/airbus-will-challenge-boeing-to-undo-showstopping-737-max-deal
https://www.aerotime.aero/parisaishow/22766-airbus-to-challenge-iag-boeing-deal-for-200-max
https://www.ft.com/content/ba28845c-9363-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3271
Greg77FA
Greg77FA 2
I think Airbus could pull off major market advantage by not bidding on deal. Let Boeing sit there with empty 737 Max planes.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -1
You don’t qualify as “empty” planes. Since you are risk adverse, please go re-arrange your sock drawer and leave flying to us professionals.
louislaurent008
Louis LAURENT 2
Des commentaires sur Airbus en français ??? Les ordinateurs de bord sont belges !
lecompte2
lecompte2 2
Obviously IAG must be run by been counters who know little about airplanes and care little about the safety of their clients. However, they might have scooped themselves here or are simply putting pressure on Airbus to lower prices.

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Pcmacinc
Paul Fairbrother 1
IAG will ultimately pay the price as I know most passengers would not wish to fly on this aircraft. I would switch airlines before flying on the MAX.
spbking
Stuart Fountain 0
the LoI was only placed to get Airbus to reduce prices, both Iberia and Are Lingug had already said they were going with Airbus
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 5
Iberia and Aer Lingus get what IAG gives them, unfortunately.
nezasingh
Edward Singh 0
Correct don't forget to add british airways as well
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
Was an A380 ever sold at a profit. Then decimated real competition in the middle east.
MSUSparty
MSU Sparty -1
It is a free market driven by competition. Boeing and Airbus can sell and price as they wish. Remember the days when Airbus had EU Govt money backing every order? Airbus lost money on the A380 and it is finished. They discounted that plane every day.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
If that is your opinion, then please tell me why it was Boeing bitched about the C-Series, when they didn't even really know the selling price to Delta, and got the US Government onboard to the tune of almost 300% tariffs against it? Yes they were eventually dropped, but damage had already been done as no more US orders came in.
No they didn't "discount" the A380 everyday. It's sales were not as Airbus thot, no US carrier's wanted them, and it cost them up the wazzou to develop it. That's why they lost money on it and pulled the plug.
And please, don't go there about subsidies...every aircraft manufacture in the world has had government backing, in 1 form or another.
jeliop
John Eliopoulos -1
Not like Airbus.
patpylot
patrick baker -2
memo to the eu: it isn't dumping when something is sold for more than the cost of production, or if generous terms are part of the deal. It is economic warfare, the less than satisfying substitute for the real thing, which given the french military performamnce throughout history, it is left to people like me to point that out. Go to Vegas, bet the opponents of the french straight up, and wait to go to the payoff window. guaranteed.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
Perhaps Bombardier should have sent the first part of that same memo to Boeing and the US Dept of Commerce.
Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot, good ole Boeing has folks standing in front of it's doors protecting it's interests.
BTW, the EU is more than just France, and do you really think it's called for bringing up history of a small military?? People like you do not have to point out their downfalls.

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